waking during nightmares?

[stagemanager2]

Alright, so now that Stan is a bit older I thought these night terrors would wear off but they seem to be getting worse!  Now it takes us not only talking to him but bouncing with him to putting cold towels on his face to banging a pot to wake him.

These night terrors (as I call them as they sound like it) last up to ten minutes before we can wake Stan.  He screams and screams.  He is almost totally limp and his eyes are closed.  Only when he opens his eyes and focuses on us (I've had him open his eyes and they were looking "through" me as he screamed bloody murder until at last he actually focused on me and the crying stopped) is when the crying completely stops and Stan's head slowly finds it's way to our shoulders.  There was even a night he stopped crying, smiled at dh and started babbling to him. 

So here is my question.  Should I even be trying to wake him from these?  Should I just let him go and see if he'll wake himself?  I think this is a form of CIO, isn't it?  Is him waking in our arms counter productive to his own emotional growth?  Should he learn to get through these dreams by himself?  Has anyone had this happen to them? 

They started when he was about 9mo and now seem to happen if not once a month once a week.  (obviously not enough to go to the doc)  We think it may run in the family as DH has had many episodes where we have had conversations and he doesn't remember them the next morning, or I wake up and find him looking in the fridge standing fast asleep.

(goodness, didn't mean to go on so, sorry bout that)
anyone?

[elmarie]

Hi Heather, moving this to toddler sleep for you 

[speechie]

Hi Heather! YES! I have BTDT- First, I want to be sure it is most likely a Night Terror- typically this happens in the first 1/3 of the night's sleep so- between 8-12PM? Your LO definitely does not seem aware of you? Sounds like it...

If it's any comfort to you, your LO is NOT experiencing a nightmare per se. If it is a NT, most likely your LO has NO recollection of it, and is completely unaware of it the next day. Kids that have nightmares usually wake unhappy, really frightened and if it persists will become scared of their room/dark, etc.
Night terrors on the other hand seem to be more of a physical release of pent up energy from what I read. They do seem to run in families- I slept walked as a child, my DH still night talks at times.
Nick (my DS) went through this from about 8-10 months and it peaked at 9 mos- when he was really learning to walk steadily. He also had major sleep walking/crawling. We wound up hiring our sitter to sleep over in his room a few nights as I was up at 9-11 for NTs, then 2-5 for sleepwalking related wakings, ... ugh. Once Nick ran at 10 months, the NTs stopped.

It doesn't help him to wake him. I read that the most helpful thing to do was just to be there and put your hand on your child gently, and rub their back, saying "mama's here" or some soothing phrase until they stop. Their body is just moving, their mind is NOT actively dreaming. They are unaware of you, most likely. So do what you are comfortable with, standing by the edge of the crib.

You have my sympathy/empathy, ...it is sooooooo spooky/eerie sounding and looking. FWIW, our MD said that NTs can be a sign of a creative/sharp mind.

If you need more info, feel free to PM me, also check out Richard Ferber's book "Solve your child's sleep problems (2006 issue). I am not a fan of some of his methods, BUT his information on NTs, sleepwalking and major sleep disorders is the most comprehensive I've found. Your library probably has a copy. Most bookstores do.

HUGE hugs- BTW, how old is your LO now? Any major motor stuff happening?

[EllenS]

Agree with pp - dd had nt's off and on for a couple of months - they were pretty predictably connected to OT in the day and bad naps, for us.  From what I have read in Marc Weissbluth's book on sleep, it does no good to try to wake them from NT - in fact, it is incredibly difficult (sounds like what you have) because theiy are stuck between stages of sleep.  They have no recollectin of it and are not conscious of you.  In fact, sometimes they get worse when you try to wake them because they respond as if you are attacking them (I had this happen with dd a few times). 

I finally learned to just put my hand on her briefly, check what was going on with her, say something like "mama's here" a couple of times, then if I got no response i would just sit by her until she "came down" from it.  This made them much shorter and less intense than when we tried to wake her, ironically.

Hugs, I know it breaks your heart and sounds/feels just terrible.

[stagemanager2]

Thanks, I feel better knowing it's normal (sorta).  It has only happened between 9-10pm never later, isn't afraid of his bed or wakes unhappily the next day.

Stan is just over a year now and he is getting better at walking but these wakings started when he was 9mo and have been happening steadily ever since.  DH has horrible sleep walking trouble.  He assumed that's what was happening. 

I read a bit about NT and the one thing that is different is that Stan in completely limp.  He just flops in our arms when we pick him up with an uncharactisticly loud, high pitch scream not withholding.  The first time it happened I thought he had become paralized and I almost called 911! 

What bothers me the most is the limpness that comes with these nw.  Never fights us, sits comfortably in our arms and sometimes rests his head while he screams.  I've gotten used to waking him.  It's so strange when he finally wakes... he just kind of looks at us and falls back asleep with no problems for the rest of the night.  Some of his best nights are when he has these episodes!

When it happens again I'll try to just rub his back and let him know I'm there.  Thanks again, I'll check out those books

[Purplecattypants]

I have no advice Heather, just wanted to send you some hugs and say it's nice to see you!

You're an incredible woman, Stan seems never to have been a good sleeper yet you are trying for more kids....amazing! You're a better woman than I 

[speechie]

yeah- the scream is eerie how high pitched it is...I hope that Stan will outgrow this soon. It really did take us about 2-3 months. But is HAS disappeared. Huge hugs- and is Ang right? you are wanting to try again! Wow- you are one strong woman! I'm still exhausted from my LOs prior NWs -
BTW, your LO may wind up being a sleepwalker- NTs and sleepwalking are related, so be sure to keep an eye out for that as he gets older. Once Nick is into a BBB we'll have to gate or alarm his door to keep him safe. I got outside when I was a kid sleepwalking. I'm really lucky I didn't break my neck on our 2nd story deck!

[stagemanager2]

Yes, the stories are true, trying for our second....

to be honest it's mostly because dh and I will be able to finish our family (we only want two) then I can start surogate work... I'm really excited!!  It will be an eventful last half of my twenties... when I hit thirty I'm done and I can focus a bit more on my career and such!

ps good to see you too...