Nap extension question!

[*Liz*]

I'm currently attacking my EASY routine as I have a distractable 5mo lo who is a chronic short napper - 30-40 mins is his usual time. When he wakes he just looks around, and if you don't return chatters a bit and then moans a bit. As soon as I enter the room he beams at me! But when I get him up he is still yawning and gets increasingly cranky as the day goes on. Takes 10-30 mins to settle for naps - sometimes completely independently sometimes with a bit of a cry and PU/PD.

How do I extend? If I'm in there he will look for me and try to play. Shielding his eye's makes him a bit cranky and moves around more to find me!! Sometimes does a bit of mantra crying but doesn't really full out cry. I assume this means I can't do PU/PD? In fact when i do it to put him to sleep in the first place he stops crying as soon as my hands enter the crib, and then cries and thrashes on my shoulder.

I don't use a dummy, and all my old props have stopped working! He fights being rocked to sleep and even wakes after 30-40 mins in the buggy.

How do I approach this?

[anna*]

It is hard to extend naps. Some babies just are chronic short nappers, but more often it's a matter of getting the A times right. Do you want to post an average day's EASY routine and we can see if it needs some tweaks?

anna
x

[*Liz*]

There is no such thing as an average day at the moment! Its all over the shop due to his distracted feeding and short naps, and random naps in the buggy/ car seat. The ladies in the EASY forum are trying to help me establish it properly.

Every few days he kind of crashes out in the pushchair then sleeps for 2 hrs when we get home. I assume this is when he just gets sooo tired and needs to catch up. However this week I have had 3 naps over 1 hour in the crib - and have only ever had one before at about 15 weeks I've put this down to him maturing a little.

At the moment I am trying him with 2 hrs A time and logging the effects.

I'll post a typical day in a few days when I feel I have one!!

The majority of his longer naps have been in the afternoon on darker days so maybe I do need to darken the room more. Not sure how as I've already got curtains and blackout blinds. Perhaps a piece of black cardboard for me to see whether it makes a difference first?

I'll try the W2S tomorrow.

[*Liz*]

Right I've just put him down and I'm going to try W2S in a few mins. He's overtired already today after a bad night so expecting a 30-40 min nap!

Just a quick initial settling question - wind down completed sitting down in room - my lo is almost always calm at this point just sat on my knee tired but not really sleepy iykwim? So I say nap time sleepy head and place him in the crib and tuck his blankets in. He then starts to chat and moan a little so I give him his sleepy teddy and his muslin and he starts to rub this on his face and talk/ moan. I assume this is him trying to settle himself so I leave the room. I then almost always return as he is starting to cry and then do a bit of shh/ head rub and he then calms and settles. The reason I leave is that he keeps looking for me otherwise.

Is this the right thing to do? Is shh/ head rub for when they are unsettled and need some calming? I know some say to do it until they are def asleep but I usually stop once his movement stops and he 'melts' as I find he can go to sleep fine on his own from this point. Or should I be doing it from putting him in the crib until he falls asleep?

I have a very sweet natured lo who isn't too much of a screamer so its sometimes hard to tailor the advice. I know he needs more sleep and sleep training as he gets very grumpy at the end of the day and is hard to settle for bed - and indeed woke every 2 hrs all the way through the night

I failed with these methods last time as I couldn't cope with the crying I felt I ended up inducing and decided APing was easier - and suprise suprise 10 weeks later I am fed up of waking up all night and walking with the buggy in the rain. I just really want to sort things out this time!

[anna*]

It sounds like you're doing everything right. Shh-pat is just for when they're crying and need help. If he can get to sleep by himself, that's excellent and there's no need to settle him all the way. If he's getting more and more OT as the day goes on, can you keep your A times a little shorter? Maybe that would help him get some longer naps in?

anna
x

[*Liz*]

I'm trying short A times at the moment so we shall see. I even failed to catch up any sleep with APOP today.

With W2S - does this work for short OT naps? Or just 45 min fail to transition naps? I watched my lo today and he jolted at 30 mins and survived but the 37 min jolt woke him - not suprisingly as his head and all 4 limbs went at the same time!!

[*Liz*]

DS can put himself to sleep - he just objects to doing it

I got a 1.5 hr nap this morning but not sure how it happened as I am confused about the A time. And the rest of the day was rubbish.

But also he coughed about 20 mins after falling asleep and I thought it was game over - but he continued to sleep and I heard him stir at 40 mins but transitioned and did not wake. I just wondered whether this might have been his own form of W2S? Or if its more likely that it made no difference, especially as he still came into light sleep at the same time?

[*Liz*]

Hmmm I find it so hard knowing what to do really - lo almost always goes into crib nice and calm and I give him his comfort teddy and sicky muslin which he tends to suck - and then I leave him to it and return to shhh if he's fussing but leave shhh/pt for crying. Thing is sometimes it can take him ages to actually go to sleep he just sucks and talks and sucks and talks. But if he sees me trying to help at that point he just tries to play.

Should I just keep trying to leave him to it and only return if he's crying? Or should I be trying to help him get to sleep - or is that when I risk becoming a prop? I suppose it just can take them a while when they are only learning? But it really messes up your day and A times then!

[anna*]

If he's just fussing, I would definitely leave him to it. He might put himself to sleep - great! Or, he might start crying, in which check it is not a mantra cry before going in to shh-pat. If he's just sucking and talking, stay out of the room! You cannot 'make' a baby sleep - he needs to do that for himself. If you're shh-patting when he's not crying, he's not going to learn to get himself to sleep and you'll risk turning yourself into a prop!

anna
x

[*Liz*]

Thanks Anna and Jay thats really helpful again. Its just you can end up in a bit of a walk in/ walk out situation which I then feel bad about. But it looks like I am doing it alright really
I'll just sit in the room next door and return if he needs me.

[~inbalance~]

Do you have a wind down routine before naptime?
My 5 month old used to nap 30-45 mins, and he would never go down for a nap whenever I wanted him too.  Then I put him on EASY, started looking for his sleep window, when he started to look tired I would take him to his room and spend 10-15 minutes getting him ready for his nap:  diaper change if needed, swaddle, dim lights, sit with him for a few minutes.  After doing that he started going to sleep right away.  Then when he woke after 30-45 mins, I did PU/PD until he went back to sleep and he would sleep out the rest of his time.  It was hard the first few days, he would protest PU/PD and it would take up to an hour, but I stuck with it and now he will often sleep the full 1-1/2 to 2 hours straight, and if he does wake it takes little time to get him to go back to sleep.  We're not there yet but we're getting there...Saturday he slept two hours straight in the morning and 1-1/2 hours in the afternoon without waking, first day I had two successful naps.  I was ecstatic - progress!!!

Also, what sorts of activities does he do before naptime?  Maybe he is too wound up to sleep.  I used to let my LO play in his jolly jumper hoping to tire him out then try to put him down right away. Turns out he was too worked up to sleep.  Now I try to keep the activity time low key for about 30 mins before naptime and that really seems to help.

My son does the mantra cry too, so when he does that I just try to soothe him in his crib.  I use shush pat or hum, sometimes just put my hand on him and it seems to be working.  I'm thinking actually of just leaving him be if he is doing the mantra cry and seeing if he settles on his own...

He used to do the same thing, wake up after 30-45 mins and look like he was happy and rearing to go, so I would get him up then 30 mins later he would be cranky.  Now I make him finish his full nap, using PU/PD if I have to.  It's really been helping us.

Good luck!

[*Liz*]

Thanks tatsmom - thats exactly what lo does - wakes after 30-45 mins and seems happy enough and then after 30 mins is fussing and yawning like mad. He's such a good natured lo so PU/PD is not always appropriate ie not crying. I reason I need to sort his naps are evening meltdowns and multiple NWings, oh and chaotic feedings.

Yesterday I tried for 45mins to extend mainly with shh/ptt and ended in 5 mins PU/PD - but as you can see that means it took 40 mins for him to get worked up!!

I assume the point of trying to extend is to try to teach them that they have not finished yet?

Oh, I hope I get some success quickly as hate feeling as though I am upsetting him with the nap extension thing, but I promised myself I would be really consistent this time .

Yesterday he took a short first nap, failed to extend, then fed and ended up on normal A time due to solids and hiccupps, then another short nap that I couldn't extend as he was clearly hungry, so then fed and kept up for 30 mins as awake after feed, then back to bed and this time got a 1h 40min nap Woke at 16.40 though so no time for a capnap so ended up on 2.5hrs A time pre bed. But only woke at 2.30am and 5.30am so I was pretty pleased to be honest

[~inbalance~]

For the first few days it took me anywhere between 20 mins to an hour of shh/pat and/or PU/PD to get him back to sleep, but I always did.  I think that is the success to extending them is seeing that they finish the nap out instead of letting them cut it short.  It is very frustrating.  Even now I still have to do it half the time, but it takes less time and effort than it did in the beginning to resettle him.  And like I said, I have more success with longer naps, most of the time he'll sleep for at least an hour before waking, and sometimes ever go the whole 1-1/2 to 2 hours.  Patience and persistence are key I think.

If he is hungry before finishing out the proper nap time, perhaps he is not getting enough during his feeds to sustain him until the next one?

Well, yours isn't napping as well as mine, but sounds like he's sleeping better at night than mine, so in that case I am envious!
Good luck with the naps!