What happens when LO is way off the routine?

[mama2ella]

Hi BW Experts!

My LO, Ella, is 8 weeks today.  She is my first, and I am a total newbie to the BW routine. I have been really trying to implement EASY with her from the start, with some limited success.  Having a few issues and wasn't sure how to address them:

One example is today- She woke up at 5:30am, which I wish were 7am, so I fed her, but she wasn't ready to go right back down- wanted to be awake for the day- I think that both of us dozed off a little between then and 6:30 when she was up again.  I figured I would stave her off by changing her diaper, snuggling, until close to 7am, which I would like to be our official wake up time.

I fed her at 7, and she was exhausted after being awake for so long, so she fell easily back to sleep at 7:30 and slept until 8:40 or so.

I again figured I would try to have her wait a bit before the next feed.  I fed her about 9:15- and she was bopping on and off the breast- so tired! So she went down at 10am- and is sleeping now.  I am hoping this will be a long nap.

The heart of this question is: What happens when there is not a 2.5 or 3 hour gap between feeds, and baby is essentially changing the order of the routine to AES?? I want to get back on track but not sure how in this example...?

More questions to come, but for now, this one is top of the list!

Thanks in advance for help and advice!
Ann

[aimeeL]

I have a LO who is 4 months, so definitely no expert... but I'm thinking that what might help your situation is extending her naps?  Is she normally a short napper?  Have you tried any BW methods to help lengthen naps?  I think that for me, if she were to wake again early from a nap, I would feed her a bit sooner - just so, like you said, she's not exhausted by the end of the feed and ready to sleep... have a short A time, then S again... And see if you can break the cycle of AES that way....?

[* Paula *]

Hi and welcome to the BW website.  Congrats on the birth of your DD.

Can you post what your day looks like

E
A - how long
S - how long including wind down

So that we can try and help you tweak your routine.

It is not uncommon for lo's to be doing ESAESA etc, as from 0-3 months they are generally working on their night time sleep and then from 3-6 months is when they work on their daytime sleep.

Is your lo swaddled?  Have you tried staying in the room to see how your lo wakes?  i.e. does she wake with one of the jolts etc?  Have you tried extending her naps with pat / shhh?

[mama2ella]

Thank you so very much for your help and advice!

Her schedule is not very "regular"- only in the sense that we are running between 2.5 - 3hour cycles usually during the day for easy- here is an example:
(and this schedule can vary by an hour or an hour and a half!!)

Wake 5 or 5:30am- see the routine below- pretty bumpy ride until 7am (she's mainly awake, with a couple of catnaps-)This part of the morning routine has been the most regular and I am not sure how to handle it.  She won't take a paci~ I try to just start EASY at 6:45 or 7am, no matter what has come before--
E 7am
A: change diaper- smile and cuddle in bed
often miss the window, like this morning- so screaming, hard to settle- takes 20 mins plus to settle her down
S 8:15-9:30

E 9:45am
A until10:30 or 11am
S 11-12

E 12:15
A: wind down starting about 1pm
S: 1:40- 2:30 (this nap is often in front carrier while I walk)
A- tried to stretch nap out- didn't work!

E: 2:55- often afternoon feeds aren't very good- she bobs on and off breast and I'm afraid she's not eating much
A: fussy
S: 4:30-5:15?

E: 5:20- often doesn't eat well at this time either
A: Bath time!  Good in the bath, sometimes fussy after
S: FUSSY settling down- takes an hour to get to bed usually- start settling before 7pm, doesn't get to sleep until 8pm

Dream feed 10pm

Wake 1-2am, feed- goes right back down
Wake 3-4am feed- right back down
Wake 5 or 5:30- then the problems begin- see below

Yes, she is swaddled when she is sleeping
Yes, I usually stay in the room with her, doing shh/pat to get her down for naps- and she does often wake frequently in the process of falling asleep.

Tried extending naps with shh/pat- hasn't worked so far.

Thanks in advance for looking this over!

Ann

[* Paula *]

I am thinking that your lo's A time might be too long and this is why your lo is finding it difficult to settle for naps and being fussy in general.

I would aim for about 1 hour - 1 hour 15 mins A time max at this age and see how your lo does.

Also I would stay in the room for the first few naps and see how your lo does.  When you see her starting to stirr, apply a bit of pressure and pat / shhh to help her into her next phase of sleep.  This is generally done for the first 45-50 mins of the nap to help ease her in to a deeper sleep cycle.

[mama2ella]

Paula and all-knowing BW Moms!

Thanks so much- I had been staying in her room for 20 mins or so after she was settled in her basinet- I will wait longer. I know that I must be missing her cues somehow for her to be getting so riled up and hard to settle.

I read the encouragements today for shh/pat and will stay on it.  Thank God for this website!

Another question: We were running errands this morning, so she was awake for what should have been some S time- but I fed her at the 3 hour mark, so I will start there (realizing that she didn't just wake up from a nap, she had been awake for over an hour-
E: 1:10
S: 1:45 (short awake, since she was awake before!)
She woke up at 2:30- I tried to shh/pat- didn't work- she was very much awake- so I didn't know whether to extend the cycle, or since she was acting hungry- feed?
I fed her!
E: 2:40
A: changed her diaper, got her packed on the front carrier to go on a walk with me
S: 4:10-5:40

Is that ok??  I figured this was the spirit of the ROUTINE rather than SCHEDULE? But I wasn't sure??  Thanks!

[* Paula *]

Sounds like you read yor lo's cues fantastically.

There are going to be days where the routine is thrown off cause you are out and about running errands etc.  It is actually great to get out the house, otherwise you can end up feeling like the 4 walls are closing in on you. 

We found that on days where routine was thrown off due to bad naps when we were out, we tried to stay in the next day just to try and get DD back on routine.

Hope this helps

[mama2ella]

Hello again- more questions, and a new, difficult conundrum:

I still have my LO waking early- usually 5am, and not going down easily as if it were a night feed- so I am just popping her in bed, as a last resort- trying to keep her settled until about 7am.  Any suggestions there?

Then- she seems to be taking only short naps now, except for the midmorning nap- somewhere around 11am.  For that nap only I can get 1.5-2 hours out of here, the nap before and after it are SHORT! I have really been trying the past few days to shoot for a routine close to 7, 10, 1, 4 and 7- but finding it very very difficult with her napping so short.

I have been staying in the room with her to try to shh/pat and extend the nap, but it doesn't seem to be working for many of the naps- she seems very restless and agitated- but I know that she is still tired.  I have tried making the routine more like EASAE as an interim fix, but wish that there was a better way. 

Also- how long should I need to be helping her along by staying in the room to help with naps? it is really limiting what I am able to get done in the day- that and the short naps- akk!

Thanks so much!

Ann

[* Paula *]

How much A time is your lo doing now?  Do you think that she could be ready for an increase in A time?

[mama2ella]

Thanks! A time is just over an hour, but feeling like it is all she can handle w such short cat naps.... is this a ot problem?? Last two nights she has added extra NW early in the night- midnight? Also awake and cooing to herself from about 2-4am. HELP!!

[* Paula *]

I am thinking that OT is the problem.  I would try and do anything you can to get your lo to nap and catch up on some sleep.  Even if you have to APOP (accidental parenting on purpose).  Once you have caught up on sleep you can try and break the bad habits.

[mama2ella]

Thank you, Paula- will be working on it! I do think we have to break the OT cycle before working on the other stuff.

[* Paula *]

Good luck, keep us posted on how he gets on.