NWs after illness - how can I stop it?

[Tobysmum]

Well, everything was going so fantastically well until Gus got sick.
Background:
Gus is 13.5 months and after 11 months of bad naps and lots of NWs, he suddenly started sleeping through the night - EVERY night and taking great naps.  Yay!

BUT he got sick with a horrible virus (high fever for a week and broke out in red spots all over his body), he lost his appetite etc.  Because he was not eating, I had to basically feed him when he woke in the night (I am breastfeeding) - it was generally 1-2 times per night.

Now, he's better, he is still waking at night (hungry) as I guess his body has got into that habit again.  Usually it's around 4am or thereabouts.

Admittedly we did let him cry last night at 4am and he went back to sleep until about 5am - but then I gave in and fed him as he was clearly not happy at all!

I am not sure how to cut out the nighttime feed - any ideas?

How can we eliminate that night feeding again as I absolutely know he doesn't need it since he's gone 11.5-12 hrs between feeds at night previous to this.

Just FYI, he's eats well generally, having 3 solid feeds per day.  He breastfeeds anywhere from 2-4 times per day  (but usually not as much as 4 times).  He has really cut down on the bedtime feed which isn't helping but I can't seem to get him to take anymore than he is taking.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

[becky1969]

Since he's 13.5 months we KNOW he won't die from hunger.    So, I think what I'd do is not feed him for NWs or EWs -- wait until an appropriate waking time (6 or 7 am, whatever your family typically does) and THEN give him breakfast.  This may mean 1 or 2 tough nights where he wants to feed like normal.  But the result will be a VERY hungry toddler in the morning.  That should help you get the nutrition in him during the day, rather than night.  As long as you continue feeding at night he will want to eat then!  See what I mean? With a very young baby we wouldn't do this because it's so very important for them to have regular feeds, for dehydration purposes as well as nutrition.  But this is a toddler and going 12-14 hours between feeds is just fine.  Heck, toddlers can go 24 hours without food without really doing any damage.  And some do when on food jags!

So, just decide not to feed at night any mroe and that will get your feeds more concentrated during the day.  You can even do the old bandaids on your nipples at night and say "mama's boobies are broken tonight.  No more milk. Let's go to sleep."    He's old enough to understand when you say you have a boo boo.    Like I said, it could be a couple of rough nights with NWs, but then he'll get the picture! And his tummy will get full during the day, and everything will go back to normal.  Treat the NW as you would normally -- with WI/WO most likely.  If he's still pretty clingy after being sick, I'm OK with more soothing than you'd typically do, but avoid feeding at all cost.  You can sit in the rocker and cuddle for 2 hours as far as I'm concerned as long as you don't BF.

Good luck! NWs are SO much harder to deal with after a stretch of STTN, aren't they? 

[Tobysmum]

OK - thanks for your advice.  The bandaids over the nipples would not work - there is no way that Gus would understand that, would have no clue what a boo boo is!  He's now waking at about 6am which is better than it was, he is feeding pretty well at bedtime again.  I don't necessarily think the WI/WO would work for us - if anything, I think it would get him even more worked up. 
That said, what we are doing now, isn't really working either.
He's waking at 6.00 and then he cries until we go in at about 6.30 (which is still earlier than his waking used to be).  He cries pretty persistently and doesn't really take any breaks.  I have never been one to CIO - we always did pu/pd and pat/shh when he was young.
If we go in to him, he's automatically going to expect to bed fed. 
I have read the WI/WO info, but I am not exactly sure how you are supposed to do it.
Perhaps you could offer some guidance on this.
I do have a toddler in the next room , who unbelievably doesn't wake (or at least doesn't let us know he's awake) when Gus is crying, but I'm sure he would if we were going in and out of Gus's room.

[becky1969]

does this mean NWs are gone? He's now just waking at 6?

Can you show me what your routine is in E,A,S format?

[Tobysmum]

Yes, I guess the NWs are gone now.  The wakings have got progressively later as the week has gone on.  In actual fact, today he woke at 6.35 which is closer to when he used to wake before he got sick.

As far as our day goes, it really depends on the day.  If he wakes early we do 2 naps (or if we are in the car in the am, he falls asleep regardless and we end up having to do 2 naps), but he can manage fine on 1 nap as long as he wakes at a reasonable hour.

This is a rough idea of our day (2 routines depending on whether a 1 nap or 2 nap day and also depending on how long the 1st nap is).

1 nap day:
E Anywhere between 6.30-7.00 depending on when he wakes
E 8.00 breakfast
A
E 11.15/11.30 solids (sometimes he will have a BF around 11.00 or later and lunch is pused a bit later)
S 12.00
A 1.15-2.00 (rarely naps as long as 2hrs)
E Sometimes BF in afternoon - just a snack
E 5.00 solids
E 6.30 BF
S 6.45/7.00

2 nap day:
E E Anywhere between 6.30-7.00 depending on when he wakes
E 8.00 breakfast
A
S 10.00
A 10.30 (if in car will nap 30 mins) although if I put him down for a nap he can sleep 40 mins - 1hr.
E 11.15/11.30 solids (sometimes he will have a BF around 11.00 or later and lunch is pused a bit later)
A 1.15-2.00 (rarely naps as long as 2hrs)
S if 30 min nap, I put him down 3hrs after he wakes.  If longer, put him down 3.75-4hrs after he wakes. Will sleep from 1hr - 1hr 30 mins if has an am nap.
E Sometimes BF in afternoon - just a snack
E 5.00 solids
E 6.30 BF
S 6.45/7.00

Total daytime sleep can be anywhere from 1.5hrs - 2hrs usually.

[becky1969]

If you're not having NWs, and you're fine with his naps, then I think you're just worried about the 6 am waking, is that right?

Well, if he's going to bed at 6:45/7, then waking at 6 is an 11-11.25 hour night which is totally fine and within 'normal' range for the age.  You may just have a guy who's cutting back on his nighttime sleep right now.  It definitely happens sometime during this year.

His total daytime sleep is a bit on the lowside, but not out of reason.  I suspect once you solidly are on 1 nap every day that his nap will slowly lengthen out to a solid 1.5 hours and perhaps as much as 2 hours.  My son had trouble when he was first on 1 nap as well, and would frequently only nap 1-1.25 hours.  Now? At age 3? I have to WAKE him from a 3 hour nap! So, guess he grew into it!  What I'm saying is don't get frustrated by naps if they aren't as long as you might wish -- this is an extremely tough transition as most LOs are really pushed to their A time limits when first going to 1 nap.  He *will* grow into tht A time, given some time.

Long story short, I wouldn't fret about that 6 am waking.  I can't really say why he's crying.  It's possible he's still tired.  If that's the case, you *could* try going in immediately to him and try to soothe him back to sleep -- see if that works.  But i'm dubious about that approach -- most kids with 11 hours under their belt aren't going to be able to fall back to sleep very easily.  You may just have to start your day at 6 for now.  Dont worry -- bedtime/waking will gradually become later as he extends his A time.  You probably won't be at 6 for more than a month.

[Tobysmum]

Yes, now it's just the EW.  He woke up at 6.40am today so that was much better!  I know it's certainly not at all bad getting 11 hrs at night - it's just we'd "prefer" to not start our day at 6am, especially as our 3 yr old doesn't usually wake until 7-7.15. 
As far as his daytime sleep goes, believe me, this is the best it's ever been.  It is 100 times better than how it used to be.  We used to have days when he would nap for 45 mins the entire day!  Today he actually slept close to 2.5 hrs in 1 nap (very rare)- although he did wake a couple of times during the nap chatting to himself (usually he just cries if he wakes) and settled himself back to sleep.  His naps have always been dreadful, but since moving to 1 nap (most days) things have changed for the better.  Obviously we still have our bad days but a nap of 1-2hrs is pretty predictable these days - whereas before a 1hr nap would be a good nap!

As I said, he's totally capable of doing just 1 nap (he started to transition perhaps even earlier than 10 months).  The problem is when he wakes early or if we go out in the car and he falls asleep and then we are having to do 2 naps.

I won't fret about the EWs - I think things may be getting back to normal now and it was probably to do with things going haywire after he was sick.

Thanks for your help.