sleep problems for 2 year old :-(

[blessedmamma]

Hi

Sorry i've not posted for a while but couldn't get onto the website for some reason :-(

Thanks for your advice Becky & Aileen. I tried what you suggested and still only got an hour sleep but then when I put DS down to bed at 6pm he wasn't going to sleep till 8pm then waking at 6.30am (10 1/2 hours - isn't this the classic OT ??) His behaviour also got worse to the point where he started running into the wall and banging his head against it when he didn't get his own way 

So ......not sure what to do now. I have brought his day sleep back to 10.30 (he still sleeps for 1 hour) and he is having a rest for 1 hour between 2.30 and 3.30 and I have brought his bedtime back to 5pm (He's asleep by 6.30) then wakes around 5.30am (At least that's 11 hours) I guess maybe I should be moving his daytime nap even earlier to say 10am and trying to get an afternoon nap out of him ??

Becky, I've tried lying in his cot/and on floor next to his cot to try and get him back to sleep for over 1/2 hour for 3 days and still he doesn't go back to sleep 

Thanks again for any advice you can give.

[becky1969]

Taking 1.5 hours to fall asleep at night just isn't right.  putting him down at 5 and falling asleep at 6:30 makes for a crazy family life!  I'd actually prefer that he fall asleep at 8 and wake at 6:30.  10.5 hours is probably a bit OT, but it makes for a decent waking! THEN you have a chance of pushing naps later and then bedtime later than 5! See what I mean? And it's going to take more than 1 day to change his sleeping habits.  I'd try a week at the schedule I recommended before deciding that it doesn't work.  It's OK -- at first it will be ahrd, but with a few more mornings of waking up post-6:30 it will help him make it to a more normal nap time of say 11:30 or 12, waking at 2 and then bed by 6:30 or 7.  See what I'm saying?

[blessedmamma]

Hi Becky

Thanks for your advice, I have started to move his nap to a bit later in the day and am now at 11.15 although he is still only sleeping 1 hour :-( Because of this he is still going to bed at 5.15, but not falling asleep until 6.30/6.45. However he now has a cold and the doc recommended Demazin so he slept last night from 6.40pm to 6.40am (not sure if that was the Demazin or the new routine) I guess I'll just keep riding it out and see what happens. Do you think I should still be moving his sleep whilst he's poorly ? Or just wait till he gets better.

Thanks again for all your help.

[becky1969]

I'd wait while he's sick.  Being ill will make him more tired than normal.  But just kind of play it by ear because he's really got some stretching to do and he may very well be ready!


I wonder if we need to change wind down a bit so that we can get him more ready for sleep initially and so he doesn't take 1.5 hours.  Hmmm.  When he's better, let me know how things are going and if we're still struggling than remind me that I said something about wind down and we'll take a whack at it! 

[blessedmamma]

Thanks Becky

Well, my DS is finally better but his sleeps are shocking 

He has been going to bed at 5pm, asleep by 6.30 stirring and crying out lots through the night then awake anywhere from 5am to 6.30. He has then been having a morning sleep at 11am (usually falls asleep straight away) but then only sleeps an hour. He was sleeping 1h 20 mins when he was sick ? Then I have been putting him in his cot in the afternoon from 2.30 till 3.30 for a rest.

Yesterday however he had an appointment at a hearing clinic and so we didn't get back for his nap until 12.00. He went straight down for it but still only slept an hour, but then last night he woke at 3.30am and didn't go back to sleep till 5.30 then slept till 6.15. I put him down this morning at the usual time of 11.00 and he is just singing and blowing raspberry's Lol and it's now 11.30 so I guess  OT ? Due to the 2 hour wake during the night ? Maybe should have put him down earlier ??

Anyway, you said to remind you about the wind down too on an evening as maybe we could change that so that he is more ready for sleep by the time he goes to bed. Currently I give him his dinner at 4.15, he then has a bath till 4.45. I get him out, dry him, brush his teeth. He gets his cup of milk out of the fridge then we sit and read a couple of stories whilst he drinks his milk then he is put in his sleeping bag, I say give mammy night night cuddle and kiss which he does then I carry him into his bedroom singing "hush little baby" - I've always sang this song even before naps, then lie him in his cot and leave, usually he's in there by 5pm. Usually asleep by 6.30 however last night (The ear clinic appt day) he didn't go to sleep till 7pm ? I guess that was prob due to the later sleep in the day.

Thanks again for your help.

PS I was at the ear clinic because the child health nurse thought maybe his sleep was funny because of glue ear, but after having him checked his ears are fine (Thankfully) So I can eliminate that.
I was thinking he may only be sleeping 1 hour cycles because he had such a bad transition from 2 naps to 1 and had maybe built up a huge sleep debt ? I think my DS sleeps in cycles of around 40-45 mins unless over tired then they tend to drop to 30 mins (I hope this makes sense ??)

Thanks in advance for your advice - really appreciate it.

P.S DS is still rolling around in cot chatting and it's now 12 o'clock midday ?

[blessedmamma]

Urgh - disastrous day. DS eventually fell asleep at 12.20, only to wake again at 12.45 crying ! I went in and gave him some medicine in case it's his teeth, tried to get him to go back to sleep doing WI/WO but no joy !

Sorry just wanted to vent !

[becky1969]

I am just so puzzled by your son!  He is just no where near a typical 2 year old's routine, and I can't figure out why.  He should have NO trouble making it to noon for a nap, even waking at 6:30 in the morning!  The short naps are troubling, because even when you give him an early nap that nap is too short.

So, I'm wondering if you still haven't pushed nap late enough -- perhaps he's always UT at naps.  Even a noon nap might be too early.   If we got nap to be later, then we could get him into a decent bedtime.

The same with bedtime.  You put him down so early that I think he's UT.  Now, I realize you do this to avoid him being OT b/c he'll take 1.5 hours to fall asleep later too.

Are there any AP techniques that work for him? For instance, if you sat by his bed while he fell asleep, would it happen quicker?  Here's what I'm wondering: can we get him out of this habit of 1.5 hours to fall asleep by using a little GW (gradual withdrawal) with you sitting by him to help him fall asleep and then we have you gradually move farther and farther away from him.  I'm wondering if we can get him used to falling asleep at a more noraml bedtime (say 7) and within a reasonable amt of time (20-30 minutes) if that wouldn't break this weird sleeping phase he's in!

Because what you're doing now just isn't great for a family life at all.  Plus, he's really not getting the sleep he needs either! So despite your best efforts he's not sleeping well AND it's disrupting family life.  So let's just get radical and try something crazy, OK?


Here's what I want to do:

1) Let's try giving some medicine before nap just for the heck of it and see if that helps.

2) Let's make sure there's AT LEAST 5 hours A time between waking and nap.  I want the nap to be no earlier than noon.  If he's really struggling staying awake, try to keep him going with quiet activities in his room.  Really push him.  This kid sounds like he's very routine oriented, so I suspect some of the sleepiness you see is out of habit.  He's on a 14 month old's routine right now! I think he's just used to it...

3) Let me know about how he does with you helping him go to sleep, if that works.  If he responds well to you sitting next to him stroking him or whatever, we're going to do that for a couple of days to help him get to sleep faster.  Then we'll do a normal GW series and have you slowly move away from the bed.

4) We're going to make sure that bedtime is 7 pm at the earliest.  I know this gives you the heebie jeebies, but we really need to move him to a more normal routine.  And I think for him a lot of this is just HABIT! But the problem is this habit isn't really meeting his sleep needs, so even though he's showing sleepy signs, he's still not getting the sleep he needs because the timing is off.  So we're going to force the right timing on him and let his body adjust to it.  It may take 2 weeks on this new routine for him to really start getting with the groove, but I think in the end he'll be much happier on this new routine.


How's that sound?

[blessedmamma]

Hi Becky

Thanks for your reply, was gonna start and implement the new routine this weekend but would you believe it my DS now has a horrible rattling cough :-( Which has disrupted most of his sleep the last couple of nights :-( so today he is absolutely shattered.

One thing I noticed last week though before I read your post was that on a couple of days last week he woke during the night and it took him a couple of hours to put himself back to sleep then slept later in the morning, then when I put him down at 11.00am he slept, on one day 1 and 1/2 hours and the next day he slept 2h 15 mins after an awake time of only 4h 30 mins (maybe this is his magic number).

Last week looked like this:
Wednesday
Awake 4.30am back to sleep at 6.45 slept till 7.20am
In cot 11.00 asleep from 11.10 till 12.40
5.00 in cot, 7.30 asleep

Thursday
Awake 2.30am back to sleep around 3.30am slept till 6.40am
In cot 11.00 asleep from 11.10 till 1.25pm
5.00pm in cot 6.40pm asleep

Friday
Awake 5.15 am - urgh - Just when I thought I was getting somewhere, this is when he started to get his nasty cough :-(

So I guess wait it out till he's better again.

Thanks for your help Becky

[blessedmamma]

Hi Becky

Got my DS checked at the docs today as his cough was beginning to sound worse. She confirmed however that he is fine and that the cough is to do with him teething (last 2 molar's at top) apparently some children can get a nasal drip when they are teething and this is what is causing him to cough...............so, seeing as nothing medically wrong will start tomorrow with adjusting the sleep. Here goes.......... urgh - you're right in saying it gives me the heeby jeebies lol !! Anything to do with his sleep scares the heck out of me, as my DS was one of those littlies that used to wake every hour at night !!  The thought of going back to that is really scary - LOL

Thanks again