How do I get LO back to sleep without AP?

[Littleone15]

My almost 4mo DD has been a pretty good night sleeper from about 5 weeks.  Sometimes she wakes as early as 3am, sometimes (like this morning) at 6am, so I know it's hunger now that's waking her.  My problem is that every time she wakes, she just wants to talk and play and doesn't want to go back to sleep.  How do you put them back to sleep?  I haven't done PU/PD since she's happy and not crying, and shh/patting her doesn't help either.  The only way we've been able to get her back to sleep is to bounce with her on the exercise ball, which I realize is major AP.  I'm currently working on better methods to get her to sleep when we put her down for the night.  Last night I did PU/PD and shh/pat at bedtime and although it took an hour and a half, I didn't bounce her at all, so I felt pretty proud of that.  But then this morning the only way to get her back to sleep was to bounce her, so of course I'm worried that my efforts last night were wasted.  She wants to play no matter if its 3am or 6am.  We have plenty of play time during the day, she's going on about a 3.5 hr EASY right now, with A times being between 1.5 hrs and 2 hrs.  Wake time is between 8:15 and 8:30 and bedtime is around 8pm.  Any ideas and advice is appreciated!!!

[Colin Macs Mom]

If she's not crying or upset, then I would say just leave her to it. You definitely do not want to be bouncing her - that will become a prop faster than you can imagine.

What's her daily routine? Perhaps it just needs a tweak...?

[Littleone15]

 Sorry, I realized after that I should have posted the routine.  This isn't written in stone, it usually flucuates by 15 mins to half an hour, depending on the exact time she wakes, and how long she naps in the afternoon.  This is the only time she will take a long nap.

E - 8:15
A - 8:30
S - 10:00 - 11:00
A - 11:00
E - 11:45
A - 12:00
S - 1:00 - 3:00
E - 3:00
A - 3:15
S - 4:45 - 5:30
A - 5:30
E - 5:45
A - 6:00
S - 6:30 - 7:00
A - 7:00 - 7:45 (incl. bathtime)
E - 7:45
S - 8:00
DF - 10:30 - 11:00

As you can see we follow more of an AEAS than EASY right now.  A lot in part because she won't nap long in the morning.  I've tried shh/patting her and PU/PD to no avail, and I'm okay with this, as long as she has a longer nap in the afternoon.  So we should just leave her to have activity time in her crib?  I'm not sure I like that as it obviously means less sleep for us, lol.  And I don't want to encourage this and have it become a habit.  In fact, I'd rather have the bouncing be a habit than having to be awake in the wee hours of the morning if thats the case! 

[Colin Macs Mom]

You know, since she's nearly 4 mo she may be ready for a full-fledged 4 hour routine. That could explain your problem.

[Littleone15]

Yeah, I'm trying really hard to get her to go 4 hrs, but she wants the food sooner it seems.  I will keep upping the times between though and see how it goes.  Thanks!

[Colin Macs Mom]

Is she taking a full feed at each meal, or just snacking?

[Littleone15]

Well, she's not really snacking I don't think.  Here's the thing - for some reason the last few weeks, she's been waking up for the day at her normal time, but not wanting a full feed.  And this can be up to 6 hrs since her last feed in the middle of the night!  She used to down up to 5oz, now I'm lucky if she takes 3.5oz first thing in the morning.  Anyways, I tried upping her amounts in her next bottle and she wouldn't finish it.  She does seem to take more as the day goes on though.  She's gotten so fidgety when she feeds too.  It's not that she's not eating, she just keeps looking here and there and gets distracted.  During the day she'll take about 4.5 oz, at her bedtime feed I up it to 5oz, and the DF I'll try to sneak in almost 6 oz.  I've tried and tried to wait longer and give her more at each feeding, but she just seems to want to eat sooner, and then I ended up wasting a lot of formula, not to mention I just about drove myself crazy!  I will try really hard tomorrow to see if she can wait longer each time and see how it goes.

[Colin Macs Mom]

So just to be clear, you're bottle feeding and not BFing right? My DS could never eat immediately upon waking, we would always wait even just 10 minutes. Have you tried maybe waiting a little bit before that first feed?

Actually this is a good thing - it's pretty remarkable for a LO her age to be able to do that! It means she's getting what she needs!

[Littleone15]

I've waited as long as an hour sometimes and she still doesn't want a lot.  She just wants to get on with the day and play, lol!  I just wish she would go that long on her first stretch of nighttime sleep and not the last, because I find it harder to get back to sleep. What I've started doing is feeding her in her room, not talking to her, not doing anything and no Daddy coming in until after.  I'm trying to fool her into thinking its still the middle of the night .  I'm getting her to take maybe another 1/2 oz this way, so it's a start!

[Littleone15]

Yes, I'm formula feeding.  So last night, she woke around 4am, DH got up and fed her.  Of course when she was done, she just wanted to play again.  She had a lot of activity time yesterday!  I couldn't get her to fully sleep during her last catnap, so she was up for a while before bedtime (though half asleep for the 30 mins I tried to get her to sleep).  I made sure she had enough A time during the day without making her OT.  She had such circles under her eyes by the time I put her to nap and at bedtime, so I know she was tired.   Sigh......DH just left her in her crib to talk again.  By 5am, I thought it was enough since I really don't want this to become a habit, so I was able to put her back to sleep by shh/patting her first on my shoulder than in her crib.  Thankfully she didn't wake until her normal 8am.  I'm going to try really hard again today to extend her A times and E time so we're closer to a 4 hr schedule.  But should I just expect this to become a normal thing now?  What's the point of DH getting up to feed her, if I'm going to be the one to put her back to sleep.  I think in a way she thinks Daddy means play, and Mommy means business!

[Colin Macs Mom]

I think in a way she thinks Daddy means play, and Mommy means business!

Very common problem  

But should I just expect this to become a normal thing now?

I'm sorry, do you mean the waking early?
The thing about EASY is that during the day, we teach them that A time comes after E. So most LOs have a phase like this where they need to learn that A time only happens during the day, and not after every E. Make sense? So no, it's not a permanent thing, but you need to make sure that you and DH are giving clear signals that show daytime vs. nighttime. When you feed at night, no eye contact, no lights, no talking, etc. No stimulation. If you stay consistent she will get the message.

[Littleone15]

Yes, I mean the early waking.  I think Daddy and I will have to switch our roles for the next few nights.  He can do the DF and I will wake up in the middle of the night.  THanks for your help!

[Colin Macs Mom]

Keep me posted!

[~Lori~]

When we started having more Awake time in the night, we had to add more A time to our day.  We had been doing it consistently and DS started not making as MUCH in the night.  He was up a ton last night too, talking even, so we are working on adding more A time again.  We are on a 3.5hr EASY, working hard to get to 4Hr, but it's been HARD for my little guy to wait that long, especially since he'll wake up before that 4 hr mark and it's hard to hold him off