what is going on with my twins???:((

[yuksela]

hi,

I have 11,5 months old boy/girl twins.I dont konw where to start. here is our story:

I just met baby whisperer but my schedule,style was very closed to EASY.They started to STTN around 4 months.they were sleeping from 6-6.30 to 6. I was dream feeding at 11 and they were sleeping without waking up. oh, those were great days.Around 7 months they dropped the dream feeding but started to wake up early in the morning:10 hours after they sleep. well, I thought they were hungry and started to give them formula and they were sleeping right away. later they kept waking up but did not sleep right away even I gave them the bottle. So I reduced the formula gradually. And finally dropped it around 10 months. now it has been more then a month but they still keep waking up.

-The wake hour is most of the time at 10th hour of their sleep.if they sleep at 6, they wake up around 4, if they sleep at 7, they wake up aorund 5.

-I tried wake to sleep, but did not work.recently they started to wake earlier and again at 10th hour.

-when they wake up, I try to put them back to sleep but it takes an hour. when I leave the room they start to cry.yesterday DS woke at 5.30 dod not sleep back and he was soo happy until his first nap at 9.45

-they fall asleep with pacifier but sleep without it all night.

so what is going on?? I have been reading the message boards about a month and I am really confused. is it hunger??? learnt habit??? dropping naps from 2 to 1???

things are getting worse and worse. I am soo tired...my hubby is a grad student, so busy with his studies and families are far far away from here. Taking care of twins all alone is already so hard. and with these wakings I cant manage it anymore.really need help here..

this is our very recent and ideal schedule:

7.00- wake and bottle

10.00 nap 1 (30/45 mintues)

2.00 nap 1 (1,5 hour)

7.00 bed time

[momtonb&ab]

firstly, huge hugs to you.  twins alone is a lot of hard work, that much i know for sure.

listening to your routine i really think that wake to sleep should help.  were you stirring them gently or were they fully waking up?   

[yuksela]

thank you so much for the hugs. that helped 

actually I tried WTS twice. first with DD, I stirred her, she was about to go back to her deep sleep, DS woke up and cried, DD woke too
at the second time,  I stirred DS more gently, but he still woke up. maybe I did the WTS to early or I didnt stir him enough.

I was so discouraged and desparate to try it again. but you encouraged me again. I talked to my DH, he agreed to help me and we will try it again this night.hope it works!

by the way, I read your previous posts about NWs. you said your twins sleep in the same room. because of this NWs we separated their rooms and I am not happy iwth it. Should I put them back together? or wait to fix the NWs? 

thank you for your reply.

[momtonb&ab]

i would put thm back together if you can, especially if that is how you mean to go on.   

as to wake to sleep, you need to do it about 15-30 minutes before, and really all you need to do is go in and 're'tuck' them in or something.  they need a gentle stir to disrupt the sleep cycle but never enough to wake them.  we have done it with no lights on and a gentle rub on the tummy and a tuck of the blankets.

hang in there, it does get better.  and perhaps if dh can do it for you it would be better becuaes you are so tired and nervous about it.  they may sense you are there.  my dh actually does w2s here - he is less stressed than i am about sleep so it is easier for him.

back to the same room thing, i believe in what tracy said that you should start as you mean to go on.  so if i want them to sleep in the same room long term, i need to teach them to do it now - know what i mean?

[yuksela]

hi,

we have been trying w2s for three nights, now. first night, I did the w2s,and failed. second and tird nights my husband did it, well it seems it worked but they woke up 30 minutes after they usualy wake up. 2. night I put them sleep earlier,at 6.30 pm, since they were tired, they were supposed to wake at 4.30. DH did the w2s,and they woke up at 5! I gave it teething for DS,gave him pain killer, he slept back after 20 minutes and had wake him at 7! well, DS also slept after 30 muntes but it was a light sleep,kept rolling and finally she was awake at 6.20 am.

yesterday they did not want to sleep at 7.DS slept at 7.30 pm, DS slept at 7.45. again in the morning DH went in to stir them, but they were awake at 6 am, jumping in the bed..

now what? I really dont understand.

[momtonb&ab]

keep on with w2s.  you need to be consistent for about 5 days in my experience before it works.  also, if it were me i would get a more consistent bed time.  at this age the same time every night.   it sounds to me like 6:30 might be a better time for them.  if they are waking between 6 - 7 they should be in bed at night about that time as well.  (think 12 hour day).

hang in there, you will get it sorted out.  remember too that this is the time when they are starting with 1 year molars which really affect sleep and the canine teeth also affected sleep for us.  are they teething?  can you give me your EASY routine so i can see how the day looks?

[yuksela]

well, I was trying to push their bed time to 7-7.30. I succeeded until 6.30-6.45 pm, but with 7 pm, they are not consistent. they sometimes wake at 7, sometimes 6.30. so I reschedule a 12 hour day according their wake time and the length of their naps. A times are 3,3.5 and 3.5 hours. there are 5 hours between meals. but 6.30 schedule was the one working best-I am back to 6.30 now- Sometimes they sleep long in the mornings, or in their naps. Sometimes they refuse to sleep and they push their sleep time. or simetimes I am late to finish their meal,bath etc..and we end up with a late bed time.

this is our 6.30 routine

6.30-6.45 wake-bottle right after-6 ounces
7.30-7.45 breakfast
9.30 nap-(with a 12 hour night-they dont sleep until 10.00 and have a 30 min nap. If they had a 11-11.30 hour night then they sleep at this time for 45 minutes) also juice or water before nap

11.30 lunch

12.30 bottle 6 ounces

2.00 nap 2 (1,15 or 1,30h)

snack when they wake up
I sit on the floor and play iwth them, read book,etc.

4.30 supper (a long one,we sing,play games in the highchair)

rightn after the supper bath,bottle and bed at 6.30


aobut the w2s. yesterday we didnt try it. I put them to sleep at 6.40 and around 7 I went to the market. When I came home, Dh and kids were having a party!!! DH said they woke up after I left, and he couldnt manage it. I put them back to sleep and had no idea how was going to be their NW. well, DD did good. didnt wkae up till 6.10 in the morning. DS kept waking all night every two hours. and finally 6.10 am with his sister. and they were sooooooooooo  cranky all day,attached to my legs,crying if I dissappear,fighting each other,etc.

DS was teething, his fourth tooth on the upper side just popped up.not canine or molar but was still disturbing him. besides they were sick,still have runnig nose and cough, because of the H1N1 vaccine, I guess. I can understand that these can cause NWs,and this is a phase.I am trying to find a solution for their waking at 10th hour of their sleep which became chronic in months.

a few questions: is it possible that their night sleep is just 10 hours or so? (well,yes.they are cranky after a 10 hour sleep)

if they dont sleep 12 hours, should I still keep the routine as if they did sleep 12 hours? like, if they wake up at 6 instead of 6.30, should I still give them their nap at 9.30?

as I told you before, they wake around 10th hour of their sleep and stay awake about 1 hour. does it still count for a 12 hour night?

by the way, I am really amazed how quickly you reply my messages. Thank you. I am not desparate anymore. At least I am trying and have hope now.

[momtonb&ab]

hey there! 

i really really think that your 10 hour night is related to a 'too late to bed' thing.   what happens is that they stir out of a sleep cycle but because they are OT from the day before, they are not able to get themsevles back to sleep.   may also be indicative of the 30 min nap in the morning - i would hope for them to do more like and hour or an hour and 15 minutes at that nap. 

my suggestion is to start by pushing bedtime to 12 hours after they wake up and tailor your day around awake times.  so don't put them down at 9:30 if they woke at 5:30 - do the activity time they can handle, watching carefully to see if they are getting tired.

the two hour wake ups are likely a combination of OT and teeth, that is very common.

i doubt the 10 hour night is it - most kids really do need more than that at this age.  if they wake at teh 10th hour consider ways to encourage them back to sleep. do you go to them?  does that make them more apt to want to wake up?  or do you leave them?  we don't go to our guys right away if they do wake.  usually they go back to sleep faster that way. 

you are doing great !!!!   

[yuksela]

hi!!!

well, seems that things are getting better,which proofs that you are right about the OT. They sllept yesterday at 6.40 pm. DS woke 6.50 am, DD at 7.15 am. DS kept waking during the night.DD woke once at 3 and then around 4 am, but went back to sleep easily and didnt wake again. DD's new teeth are coming, I guess.He is chewing his blanket even at night,when he is rolling to sleep or the nipple of his bottle,his pacifier.

They slept at 10.05 am for the first nap. I put them bed earlier, they refused to sleep, I insisted and they took a 1,15 h nap!

in the afternoon we got little bit late. we went to a cafe with paly area. came home at 2.30 and they slept at 3.15 -sleeping is the last thing they want to do- now it has been almost 45 mintues and I am planning to wake them, otheriwse we will end up with a late bedtime, which I do not want anymore!

here is a question: what should I do in such situations? when they sleep longin the morning and then in the am nap. how much they should sleep in the pm nap to be able to sleep at 6.30 or 7.00(at most)??

another question (sorry keeping you busy) what should I do when they miss their nap? or sleep less then normal??
I am in a moms club and we attend some activities once a week. the activities start at 10.00 am. Sometimes I let them sleep in the car. but sometimes they dont sleep and miss their am nap or sleep later than usual, and get sooo tired. sometimes I put them to sleep at home. we  leave home after they wake but we get late to the activity and we miss almost everything.

about putting them in the same room. I think I will definitaly do it. Even they are in the seaprate rooms, they may wake each other. Putting them to sleep in the same room, at the same time, will save my time.

when they wake up at 10th hour, I was putting them back to sleep. but it was taking time.first I wait for couple minutes, If they dont settle down I go in. DD wants to hold my hand.DS wants me to stay in the room.  I realized that if the 10 hour wake time is after 4.30-5 am they do not sleep back. and we have a terrible cranky day. for last couple days, they were sleeping back easier.

thanks again for your help!

[momtonb&ab]

hey there!

so, i will try to answer some of your questions. 

you are at the stage where in a couple of months or so they will be going to one long nap instead of two.  for now, i would make sure you limit their nap length. 

for example:

if they are on a 7am - 7pm day

wake 7 am
nap 10 am
wake 11:15 at latest (no matter what time they went to sleep)
nap 2:15 at latest
wake 3:30 at latest
bed by 7pm at latest

this will be easier once you are past the OT in a week or so - as in they won't need to go down 'right' on time each time, just close to it. 

you will soon notice that on the days you go out for your group in the morning they will just have one really long nap from 11-2 or 3 and then go to bed earlier.  that's ok now and again.  for me, our LOs weren't that flexible so I never went anywhere that wuold affect their sleep - they just would be so awry if i messed with sleep.  but you will be able to get a feeling for how flexible they are after you get a few good weeks out of them and then you will notice that the day / night after your playdate when nap was missed or too short that they are cranky.  if so, then you might want to reconsider what groups you attend - but just remember, it is only for a short period - soon they will sleep for 1 nap about 2-3 hours and then there will be SO much more time.

i think you will see the 10th hour wake up will go as soon as OT is resolved.   if it isn't, see if you can wait and let them 'work it out' on their own a bit.  sometimes we facilitate the problem by going in too soon and they wake up anticipating that you will come instead of learning to soothe themselves back to sleep. 

hope this all helps.  it sounds like things are getting better.

[yuksela]

hi,

Thank you soo much for answering the questions. really helped and made my mind clear.

I think it was so soon to cheer up. They woke up at 5.30 this morning,naps werent long enough. I put them down at 5.10. we will see what happens tomorrow.

Tomorrow we have a play date, but I will go after our first am nap. I prefer to hang on alone for a while, rather than night wakings. I hope that one nap days come soon

thanks again,