How to push out bedtime and thus wake time

[smother]

My LO sleeps really well at night (11-12 hrs) but has had some problems with naps. I posted on the nap board and was directed here after we mostly fixed his nap problems by increasing A time. My problem is that he is waking around 5:30 or 6 and I would like to push that out closer to 7. He is also going to sleep around 6:30pm because his day starts so early. Here was his schedule yesterday:
5:50 wake
8:30 sleep
9:50 wake
12:50 sleep
3:10 wake
6:30 sleep

I have tried W2S but it doesn't seem to work, and sometimes backfires like today. Today he woke up to my alarm at 5:20 (he is in the room across the hall and we sleep with the doors open) and wouldn't go back to sleep.

Should I try and extend his last A time more or will I risk making him OT? When I put him down at 6:30 he doesn't seem that tired (not like after his 1st A time where his eyes close as I am putting him in his crib) and he plays for about 15 minutes before he goes to sleep. However, we have had a couple days of 7pm - 7:30 bedtime and he still wakes up around the same time in the am - will it just take a couple days of later bedtime to get used to it?

He is 7 months old.

[brenda2]

i wouldn't push out the last A time, it's already fairly long and you don't want him going to bed ot, that will make the wake up time worse.  i don't think this is a ew thing, it's probably that he only needs 11 hours overnight of sleep which is plenty for his age.  if this is the case w2s will not work, he's just ready to be up. 

maybe you need to treat this like a time change thing if you want to switch everything to be about an hour later.

what i have done in the past when travelling and dealing with a bigger time change is to stick in an extra nap and put to bed much later and then go from whatever time lo wakes up in the morning.  so if you cut his second nap shorter (2.5 hours is fairly long) and try for a third nap for a few days to see if you can get a later bedtime that way which may n turn get a later wake up.  this avoids him having long A times and getting ot.

has he always be an early riser?  some kids just are...

[Tweakster]

Hi there, I would not push his final A time, it will likely compound the EW with OT EW.  I would start by increasing A time on the morning A time.  A lot of LO's will make up for their EW by napping soon after waking and 'catching up' at that first nap.  So you need to push that first nap out.

Do you feel like he might be able to handle 3 hours A time after 11 hour night?  I recommend pushing that first nap closer to 9 a.m.

[smother]

I think I can push his am A time IF I get him out of the house where he sees new things. When he is at home with his normal toys and environment, he get fussy and then when I put him down he is sleeping within 1 minute. Is it a good idea to push A time by taking him to a new environment even if he seems that tired when he is at home?

And no, he has not always been an early riser. The last time we were on a good routine was before Christmas and he was doing 2, 2 hr naps and 12 hrs at night, from 7-7. It went downhill because I didn't realize I needed to increase his A times as he got older:( Do you think our new goal should be 2, 1.5 hr naps and 11 hrs at night, or is 12 hrs possible?

[Tweakster]

HI there, yes I think you should take him out if it will help.  Often their fussiness is related to 'tired boredom' rather than truly tired and ready for a full nap.  I think they get used to going to sleep at the same time really.

If he was doing 12 hours he might get back to it at some point, but also realize that a lot of LO's drop back to 11 hour nights when they get a bit older and their sleep needs shift a bit.

We also did what Brenda suggests with the 3rd nap and later bedtime, and it can work.  Unfortunately for us it never sticks...it is just a nice one of and then he's back to waking early lol.

I have a true early riser so I know how hard it is.  I think you will be able to reset your LO by pushing out your day.

[smother]

Thanks Wendy and Brenda - we'll try both so that we might see results as early as tomorrow I'll let you know how it goes.

[brenda2]

just reread your post and i agree that his first  A time should be at least 3 hours, even if he wakes early.  so try to get out and extend that first one a bit and see if this helps.

they do go through phases with amount of night sleep and wake up times.  we have had ews with dd1 on and off...but if he has done 12 hour nights in the past i would say you should be able to get back to that...may be that he needs less day sleep now so your suggestion of 2x1.5 hour nap is probably good .