Help with EW's - 14.5 months old

[mokey_cat]

My LO used to have EW's all the time until November when she started sleeping a lot later (sometimes 8.30am  ) but we are back to the EW's.  They range from 5.45 onwards.  Sometimes she will go back to sleep for 30 mins or so but she generally will want to play.  I thought she was going from 2-1 naps ages ago when she was 12 mo but since she has had a few chest infections and been in hospital a few times with asthma issues.  So at the moment she is on 2 naps but they seem to get earlier and earlier!!

Her routine is
Awake - 7am (maybe up at 6ish though but taken into my bed until I can function)
Nap - 10.30/11-12.30
Nap - 4.00-4.30
Bed - 8pm

Sometimes she will have a shorter CN in the car, maybe 15 mins but we still get an EW.

Does anyone have any advice?  Should I try pushing her later for her 1st nap or just let her sleep when she is tired?  She tends to sleep only 1hr if OT so I am very wary of pushing her too much too soon.  She did actually drop to 1 nap for a while and still slept late in the morning, until she was in hospital when she needed a lot more sleep.  Do her EW's sound like its down to the 2-1 switch? 

TIA

Laura
X

[grace annes mommy]

In my opinion, the EWs do sound like the 2-1.  Since she's waking up happy and chatty, right?

For us, we also did a long AM nap, PM catnap.  Over time, I slowly nudged that AM nap later and later, 15 mins. at a time, until it was at a reasonable enough time to get to bedtime.  In the process of doing this, we did end up with a later bedtime and shorter night (like 8/8:30 to 6:30).  But once we got that nap at a reasonable time, we did an early bedtime and ended up with 12-13hr nights.

I won't lie. It can be a bumpy road.  But, if she's seeming happy, and not OT with those EWs, it might be time.

~ Caitlin

[mokey_cat]

Thanks Caitlin 

She has started waking crying from every sleep but I think that is due to being in hospital a few times recently and panicking when I am not there - maybe a bit of SA??  It makes it very difficult to judge if she is OT or UT though 

Yeah I think I will try to push the am nap back.  We had no EW today so I put her for a slightly later nap at 11.35, she woke at 1pm.  So from there I get confused - its too long for her to go until bedtime (unless really early) but also too late for her to want a CN.  She slept 5 mins in the car at 5pm and then I put her to bed at 7pm.  She was shattered though.  How did you deal with that?  Did you still do a short CN but just later on, and when did you drop the CN?  I noticed today that she only slept 1hr 25 mins when she usually sleeps 2 hours.  Do you think OT?  Im guessing I need to persevere and hope that she will start sleeping longer when she gets used to it 

Sorry I have so many questions, I am struggling with this 2-1!!  She used to be really good at big jumps in A time when younger so I was kinda hoping for a cold turkey 2-1 - but she is teething again and seems to be more sensitive to OT than before so that aint going to happen 

Is your LO on 1 nap now?  What is your routine like?

Thanks for your help 

[grace annes mommy]

Hi Laura 

I'm going to start with a couple disclaimers    I know that many LOs get OT from the long am nap/short pm nap.  They don't feel rested enough at bedtime with just the catnap.  Also, my LO was a cr@p napper, and on the high side of A times.  So what we did may not work for all, iykwim.

Looking at your routine today, I'm going to guess you pushed a bit too hard. She probably needed more than that 5 mins. to get to bed. We officially moved to 1 nap at 12 months, but it was a several month process to actually arrive there. What was the A time before the AM nap today?  I would stick with that for a while and see what happens, if she'll give you a 2 hr nap.  At this age it really is so hard to tell OT and UT.  As for the SA, I would say it is very possible.  My LO was in the ER a couple months ago, and also in the hospital another time when she was 6 mos. and it really is traumatizing for them, I think.  But just be very wary of that OT monster creeping in.  Especially if you suspect teething.

Here are a couple of routines we used thru the 2-1 process. 

W 7:00
S 10:30 - 12:30
S 4 - 4:30
B 7:30

W 7:00
S 11 - 1:00
S 4:30 - 5
B 8

W 7:00
S 11:30 - 1:30
S 4:45 - 5:15
B 8:30

W 7:00
S 11:30 - 1:30
B 6:30

W 7:00
S 12 - 2
B 7:00

Sorry, I know this is so long. But I hope it gives you an idea of how to juggle those catnaps.  Once you hit the 4.5+ hr A time, you are so close, and may find yourself with some days of 1 nap, some of 2.  The whole process takes a lot of flexibility (easier said than done!!!). You also might need to get creative with meals and snacks. I should also mention that we APOPed the majority of those afternoon catnaps. 

Keep posting your routine, and we'll get a better idea of what's happening.

[mokey_cat]

Thanks for posting your routines  .  Thats exactly what I needed!!  We are doing pretty similar to you at the moment - usually either like your 1st or 2nd routine.  But I want to push her because honestly she has had the same routine since she was 7 months!!  She was always high As then too but she is just stuck in the same routine now - I think its habit. 

I stopped thinking about A times a while ago and just go by tired cues but I know that when she was 4mo, I had to go purely by the clock to get her to nap well so I think I will start writing down when she gets tired, A times, nap length etc again to see what she needs.  I think learning to walk really set her A times back a lot, so I think she can only manage 3.5 hours in am and maybe 4hrs+ in pm after a good nap. 

I work 3 days a week so DD goes to a childminder which makes everything so much more difficult.  So I only have Thursday until Sunday to try thing out  .  Today was a mess because we were all out all day so I will see how things go tomorrow.  Its funny because we did not have an EW again today  .  She cried at 5.45 and stood up but I left her for a minute and she went back to sleep  .  Maybe this whole EW thing is due to teething.  Her 3rd canine is just about through and she is really sore.

What did you do to APOP for the CN?  I find it really hard to get her for a CN if she wakes later than 12ish.  APOP does not work anymore except for car trips.  So sometimes I put her in the cot for the CN and she just plays  then she is way OT for bed!! 

Thanks for your advice 

[grace annes mommy]

We always get EWs with teething as well.  I think when they feel that discomfort during the early morning sleep cycles it wakes them up.

When I APOPed the afternoon catnaps, I either planned our outings out so she would sleep in the car on the way or back from someplace.  (She loooves sleeping in the car!) Or, I would rock her to sleep. DD is the type who has to be properly tired to go down for a nap on her own, which is why I usually had to AP her after a shorter A time.   

Until they can handle about 4.5-5hrs A time, they really do still need that catnap to make it to bedtime. 

For the 2-1, I REALLY stuck to A times.  It helped balance the days, to make sure they didn't get too long.  It also helped me keep track of where she was in the whole process, to be sure she was transitioning gradually, no more than 15 mins at a time so as to not get too OT.    After she was able to handle 5 hr A for a while and was settled into 1 nap, we opted for a set nap time.

I think keeping a log is a great idea!  I can't keep one all the time bc I drive myself crazy, but especially during transition times, it helps TONS to figure out exactly what's going on.  Post what you've logged and I'll peak at it too.

[mokey_cat]

I think it may be teething because she is really sore.  This morning she woke crying again at 5.45 but settled pretty quickly until 8am  .  I think I still need to push that morning A time because today she did:

Awake - 8am
Nap - 11.35-12.55 (1 hour 20mins after A time of 3.35)
Tried from 4.15-4.50 to get her to nap but she just was not having it  .  Eventually got her up so no CN today!!

So I think that must have been an UT nap.  Would you agree?  She usually sleeps longer than that but it couldnt possibly be OT with such a short A.  I looked back at when I used to record her naps etc and she was doing 4-4.5 hour A times in am then having 2.5-3 hour naps when she was 11 months!! then she started walking and they dropped right back but  think she defo needs an increase!!

So my plan (i think) is to do early bedtime tonight then next thursday when I finish work try and increase the am A time.  How often did you increase by 15 mins?  Even if I could get it so she woke at 1.30, I think she could last til bedtime.

She is in a happy mood so the lack of CN obviously is not bothering her 

Oh the joys of nap transitions!!  We had a lot of similar troubles when she dropped from 3-2 as well 

Thanks for your help. I will post her routines from Thursday next week (when she is not at childminder as she gets up early and then sleeps twice) if you wouldnt mind having a wee look 

X

[grace annes mommy]

I would guess she was UT for that nap too.  Hope she makes it to bedtime ok for you!

When we were transitioning, I would increase the A time by 15 mins. anytime I caught wind of an UT nap.  For DD, she'll do an hour UT nap, so if she did a couple days of this, I'd move everything 15 mins.

I do think you LO sounds close.  She probably needed more sleep learning to walk and teething, but now sounds like she's trying to increase her A's again.  Just watch closely if she's still teething not to push too fast.

But like you were saying, if you can get a nice long nap that lasts until 1:30 or later, you can probably get her to bedtime no problem.  One fantastic thing that happened when we were first starting to have 1 nap days, was DD would give us AT LEAST 12 hr nights, usually more like 13hrs or more.  So, don't be scared of doing really early bedtimes!!!

I'll be watching for your routines later this week. 

[mokey_cat]

She was also doing 13 hour nights just before she turned 1 on the days she managed 1 nap.  It was awesome  .  She went to bed at 6.55 tonight - hope we dont get NW's from her being OT.  I hate when she does not take a CN!!  But then its now only 7.15pm and I am relaxing so I kinda like the early bedtimes 

Yeah I will take it slowly because I can see her 2 bottom canines just about to come through so am very wary of OT.

[grace annes mommy]

Hi Laura! 
How are things going?

[Barbaara]

Hi Laura! 

I see you're back as well and with the same issue as mine: EW's!! Aren't they so much fun! 

Hope things will improve quickly for you.

(((Hugs)))

Barbara

[mokey_cat]

Hi ladies  .  Nice to see you again Barbara - how are you getting on?  Yes these EWs are no fun  . 

Actually Holly has been reaching 7am for the last few days and I have no clue why.  I cannot get her near 1 nap though!!  She only lasted 2hr55 this morning without being really tired then slept nearly 2 hours!!  I will post her routines when I get back from my mums.  Decided to go for a long weekend as DH is away for the weekend so I am flying with Holly on my own  Im a bit nervous as she HATES sitting still for more than 5 seconds. 

So I guess the weekend will be pretty messed up but I am starting to think she is not ready for 1 nap since she sleeps a lot longer if she naps earlier.  The EW's also coincided with beginning to talk.  Over the last 2 weeks she has really started speaking (she was only saying hiya since 12 months - nothing else) but now she can say maybe 6 or 7 words and when I was coming through to settle her she kept talking saying birdies, up, daddy etc.  Is it possible that learning to speak could cause EW's?  I know she was the same when she learned to crawl.  She is also teething her 2 canines for sure so I suppose it could also be that.  I really though she needed more A time but when I push that morning A, the nap gets shorter.

[grace annes mommy]

I'd say, as long as she's not doing EWs, don't worry about that shorter A time in the am if she's giving you a good nap!!!  If it's not broken, don't fix it! Enjoy your 2 naps.  If the EWs creep back, or she starts regularly refusing that pm nap, then maybe try again to work towards 1 nap.

It very well could have been developmental, those EWs.  I'm impressed by Holly's vocabulary!!!  My DD is a couple months older and her only consistent word is "yeah."     Our sleep is absolutely disrupted any time she seems to be working on some kind of new developmental milestone.

Hope you have a great trip! You are a brave woman!!! 

Caitlin