Just shy of 12 months - need sleep help (dropping DF and night feeds)

[jfbd6805]

Whoops missed you again! I had already put her to bed for her am nap before i read your post.... looks like I will be a day behind!

Anyway...here is the day so far...

9:30 nap
11:10 woke (1 hr 40) BF

Will put her down at 2:40 (so that's 3.5 hrs A time).

If I don't hear from you again today, yes, I will do DF tonight at 9:45 (and also tomorrow)

Basically my plan is:

Today 9:45
Wednesday 9:45
Thursday 9:30
Friday 9:30
Saturday 9:15
Sunday 9:15
Monday 9
Tuesday 9 and then I don't know....? Keep going in 15 min increments?

Maybe I am getting a bit ahead of myself but what if I feed her early and she wakes at 11? Do I just do PD/WIWO for all NWs from now on and consider an early NW at her old DF time to be a NW that needs PD?

Thanks in advance!!!

[brenda2]

Maybe I am getting a bit ahead of myself but what if I feed her early and she wakes at 11? Do I just do PD/WIWO for all NWs from now on and consider an early NW at her old DF time to be a NW that needs PD?

yes.  hopefully she won't fight you too much and you can get her back down quickly.  you've had a good couple of nights so i hope it continues for you.  with any sleep training that i've done it's a couple days and then everything is a lot better.  as long as you are consistent!

sounds like a good plan.  after a long nap this morning she may be able to handle a bit longer than 3.5 hours A time.  with the 2 to 1 switch you probably want to have one nap long and one a bit shorter,  if you do 2 long naps then it will be a longer day and bedtime would be a bit later which is fine too as long as she still sleeps well and doesn't ew.

where are you living?  with the time change you're probably ahead of me on the west coast.

[jfbd6805]

Hi Brenda

Well that second nap didn't go to well....

I put her down at 2:40 she went right to sleep but woke up screaming at 3:15. I did PD/WIWO and she seemed to be quiet but now I hear her crying again (3:45). I guess I will just have to get her up. What should i do now re: bedtime? Ugh. No break for me today b/w DD and my 3 year old are both giving me grief.

Re: 2 to 1 nap... she wasn't showing any signs of being ready for this yet. She has typically been a sleepier baby and until this attempt to drop DF, etc. was taking two 2 hr naps a day usually following a 3hr/3.5hr/3hr A period pattern. Should I attempt to reduce the AM nap despite her not showing any signs? I don't want to rush something that isn't naturally happening....DS was ready and showed signs by resisting his PM naps so we knew he was getting there but I  haven't really had any such indication from DD (except the past coupleof days nap resistance so... maybe? but I was assuming that was sickness related). Hmmmm, not sure what to do.

I am in NW Mountain time. Where in Canada are you?

[brenda2]

we're in vancouver.

if she needs the 2x2 hour naps and is sleeping fine at night then it's fine - you're right, don't rush it.  you don't need to reduce the am nap but you may need to increase the A times at some point soon.

she is a sleepy baby, my 8 mo is doing 3.5 hour A times and already on 1 long 1.5 hour nap and 1 short 45 min nap, but she is at the low end of sleep needs, much different from my first.

you'll have to do an early bedtime tonight due to the short second nap...do you think she was ot?  only 35 min nap...usually that means ot.

[brenda2]

re the 2 to 1 switch...looking again at your routine you are getting 10 hour nights with all that day sleep she's getting so if the ews continue and her nights are mostly 10 hours you could limit one of the naps and stretch out her day a bit and she would probably sleep longer at night.  some los resist naps (as your first did) and some have ews and that is a sign that she is ready for less daytime sleep.

[jfbd6805]

Hey there

Well you are right I should have done an early bedtime tonight but things never go as planned as you will see!!!
First she bumped her head at 6:45 when she fell off a chair and got a huge purple goose egg. I called her pedi and had to wait for a call back so she didn't get in the bath till 7:15. She fell asleep nursing but when I put her in her bed she woke up and started crying. I had to go in a couple of times to calm her and she finally fell asleep about 8! Ugh....

Re: whether or not she was OT... I was wondering the same thing b/c it was so short, not even a full sleep cycle and did keep her up 3.5 for both A times and normally she has a shorter first A time so maybe? But she seemed happy so I wasn't ignoring sleepy cues. Not sure.

I agree with you about the amount of sleep. I had never added it up before and realized how much she was having during the day rather than at night so I will work on shortening her naps ... perhaps reducing them to 2 1.5 hrs? I think that gets rid of 1 hr of daytime sleep which hopefully will tack onto her nights. What do you think? I am nervous that taking an whole hour off the first nap might be too drastic for her.

Well, off to feed her at 9:45. I am nervous for tonight b/c of the wonky nap and night. Definitily OT at night (if not already before). I would guess at a 5am EW b/c of the OT but am hoping I am wrong.

Will check in again tomorrow. Night!

[brenda2]

well it's tough when they hurt themselves, she may be up more tonight due to pain.

i wouldn't take a whole hour off the first nap either.  maybe shorten it by 20 min and see how that goes. then let the second nap be 2 hours if she wants.

2x1.5 hour naps is fine  or a 1 hour and a 2 hour as she will have to go to 1 long and 1 short and then eventually phase one out completely and just have the one long.  i would probably do the one long and one short but get to that slowly, cut back one nap slowly, not all at once.  maybe over a few weeks.  i would be nervous too...if it's not broken don't fix it!  if she's sleeping well at night you don't want to mess that up...but at some point she will have to start doing more sleep at night and less in the day so it's a good think to keep an eye on and start trying to change as her sleep needs change.

hope she's ok .  hugs.

[jfbd6805]

Good morning Brenda

Well, amazingly she slept all night! DF 9:45, woke at 6:30!!! Must have been sooooo tired from wonky pm nap.

Will aim for a 10am nap (3.5 hr A) and wake her at 1.5 hrs.

Will update as we go.

Thanks!

ETA:  Asleep for nap at 10:15 (she resisted.... its wierd actually, since we started this she *knows* and so is resisting more than she ever did, she used to get sleepy during story time and fall asleep within minutes of me putting her in bed awake without any protests)

Day so far....

6:30 BF (3 hr 45 A time!!!)
10:15 NAP (1 hr 25)
11:40 woke b/c needed to run errands/BF

3:10 will attempt to put her down .. will update with results!
Grrr... she isn't going to sleep - its 3.25 now.
3:35 think she is finally asleep... it is quiet now. So is this the nap resistance we were talking about or is this b/c of too long A times?

4:50 BF
8 sleep
9:45 DF

Today
6:30 BF (3HR50  A time - not intentional either she is OT or I am mising something as she is harder to put down)
10:10 (still protesting at 10:20, 1X PD/WIWO)

12 BF
3:15 NAP (AGAIN, resisted but didn't have to go back in.) I miss putting her down awake and peaceful. Now I can feel the tenson brewing.

[jfbd6805]

Brenda! It me again. I have been editing my last post with my days but needed to bump to get your perspective. DD took another 30 min nap after much resistance again this afternoon - what am I doing wrong? She probably fell asleep at 3:35 and woke at 4:05. She was so sleeply nursing. I thought I actually timed the nap pretty well (about 3 1/4 hr after waking considering she had such a long morning A time (she also resisted this morning). What am I doing wrong?

[brenda2]

hi
well at this age a lot of los are doing a long and short nap...if she is happy during the day and still sttn then i don't think it is a problem.  your A times look appropriate for her age, they could even be a little longer.  my lo is a lot younger and doing just about the same...

this is what my lo did today (8 mo):
7:30 awake
11-12:30 nap
3:30-4:10 nap
7 bed.

she did exactly the same thing yesterday and sttn 12.5 hours.

they can resist a nap b/c it's too short A time or too long.  with dd1 the 2 to 1 switch was really hard (on me...type A that i am!) and she resisted a lot of naps mostly b/c of too short A time.  i was scared of her getting ot but it probably would have been better/easier if i had increased her A times a bit sooner.  i was trying to hold onto the 2 naps but she was ready before i let her go to 1 nap iykwim.

if tonight goes well then i really wouldn't worry about the less daytime sleep this is the direction you want her to go in.

[jfbd6805]

Well she went to bed last night ok, DF at abou 9:45 (was supposed to be 9:30 but something came up so I will do 9:30 tonight) but she cried in the night at 1:40 but went back to sleep on her own, and I think she was up for the day a 5:30. i heard her start talking to hersef, then she was quiet and then she was talking enough to make me go in at 6am. I am guessing that the early waking was due to OT from yesterday.

Assume that means I should aim for a 9:30 nap today? 3.5 HR A time?

I am personally ready for one nap. It will mean that we can do so much more in the day (MOPS, stroller fitness, library story time, etc.) which will be so much better for my DS who has major cabin fever after a year of hanging around waiting for his sister to wake up!

[brenda2]

well that is still progress i think...she resettled herself and made it until 6 am for the first feed of the day.  sounds like you have successfully weaned the middle of the night feeds.  good for you.  it won't take long until you are free from the df either, you must be feeling good about all of this!

I am personally ready for one nap. It will mean that we can do so much more in the day (MOPS, stroller fitness, library story time, etc.) which will be so much better for my DS who has major cabin fever after a year of hanging around waiting for his sister to wake up!

i know, we are the same.  i would love dd2 to be on one nap, we have to go out first thign and then rush home for nap and then rush out again to get some play time in before it is time for dd1s nap,  sigh.  but by the time she's on 1 nap i will be back at work.

yes 3.5 hours A time if that's what she's doing though it seems very early for a first nap...could push it by 5-10min if she's doing ok and not fussing.