6.5 month baby on 3+ hours routine

[einatm]

Hi,

My baby is about 6.5 months and still on 3-3.5 hours routine. We are looking for a new routine for her (i guess she'll be less sleepy in a months or so) giving the constraints we are at - she gets tired after about ~1.5 hours most of the time AND after her morning nap we give her the Reflux medicine and she can eat only after half an hour. Also - feeding her is no less than 30minuts - she fights most of the time since the food coming up and all that.

Her routine is like this:
7       E bottle
7.30   A (sometimes later, since feeding her takes time)
8.30   S
10      Medicine
10.30  E - fruit and bottle
11      A
11.45  S (sometimes can stay up till 12)
13.30  E bottle
14      A (sometimes later, because of the reason...)
15      S
16.30  E sometimes she sleeps till 16.45
18      S catnap if she needs it - 40mins
18.45  Bedtime routine, in bed at 19.15-19.50

We noticed she doesn't always need the last nap, but she still can't stay awake during the day for two hours - this is maximum and most times she can't even do that, which is okay. We stayed in this routine since we have some problems around eating and we need her to eat 5 meals because she does not eat at night. Could not find any routine that might work for us in the threads.

When do we know that we MUST change the routine?
What should we pay attention to when changing her routine?
How can we "work" around the constraints without harming her good night sleep?

Thanks in advanced!   

[Jiinx]

Hi there,
 How are her nights going? Does she wake up at all?

She's getting a lot of day time sleep! Usually 6.5months are on a 4 hour EASY and getting 2 naps of 1.5-2 hours and a catnap is getting phased out. It's incredible that she can sleep so much during the day.
I found I was in the same predicament as yours in terms of my lo giving tired cues around 1.5 - 2 hours. However, she gave me short naps..yours is loving her naps and giving you long naps still! At this age though, their sleepy cues get very unreliable as their bodies are "used" to going to sleep at a certain time and are just preparing for sleep bc that what they think they're going to do at that time.  If you were to start increasing her As, you could take her into a dark room, read some books or walk around with her in a bjorn.

 In terms of the medicine, could you give it to her first thing in the morning? Los can usually wait about a half hour before eating..by the time you change their diaper, change their clothes ..etcetc.
Or, use those lovely naps to your advantage. You could give her the medicine just before she goes down to a nap. You know it'll be at least 30 mins as she's asleep for an hour and half...how does that sound?

If everything is working for you and she`s sleeping well at night ..then there may be no need to change your routine just yet. She should be dropping some sleep soon.

why does she need 5 meals a day - is she eating small meals? Is she in pain? Is her reflux under control?

[einatm]

Thank you so much for your answer! we tried the Bjorn and she fell asleep there... Even if we "shift" her schedule she wants to sleep. She sleeps well at night - we taught her to take her pacifier herself so we sleep well as well :-)

I think she needs the naps but i wanted to be prepared for the next stage. I need her to eat 5 meals since her Reflux is not in control - we need to struggle around most meals - so 5 meals give us room for things go bad. She gains weight and she's happy but she can't eat like a normal baby, but needs us to calm her down in the middle in order to keep eating. Very frustrating but EASY makes our life pleasant.

If she sleeps okay you think it's okay still? Today i took her out (her Nanny is sick so i stayed home) and we played in the park and now she's sleeping for 2 hours and won't wake up (really, i tried, i touched her!). She's like her parents - likes to sleep.

Can we be in 4 hours routine with 5 meals? Is there such thing but without giving a bottle right before we put her to bed?

[Jiinx]

why is her reflux not under control? the meds not working? Have you talked to your baby's doctor about your concerns? Why does she struggle when she eats? Sorry...I really get sensitive about reflux and seeing my lo experience so much discomfort and pain due to the acid will always remain with me. I'm really glad she's happy and gaining weight:)

I think if she sleeps well, then everything is fine. You're armed with knowledge that if her naps/night go awry you can do a tweak and you'll be back on track.

The only concern about eating frequently is bc of the snacking possibility. Since your lo has uncontrolled reflux, those 4 hour guidelines become more relaxed so the babies can eat more comfortably. So yes, you make the EASY more for your lo, which you did.

Hope she feels better soon..

[einatm]

The Reflux is not under control but i do not think she's in pain - just discomfort - i do not know what else to do. I tried nondairy formula but after a day and a half she just stopped eating, because it messed up her tummy.

She is happy and having lots of fun, most naps are fine (except the ones she spits over her face and it wakes her up), we do not feed her at night so the food does not bother her and she can sleep, but feeding time is a struggle. She eats then she starts pushing the bottle away, turning her head away and looking for other things to do. If i manage to calm her down she'll eat more - then do that again. She spits over herself in the middle and then it starts to be harder.

We did not try the Neocate yet but i think she's too old for that. Even solids go up (which annoys her even more) so i do not know what to do. Most doctors tell us we need to wait it out...

The problem about giving her the medicine before she goes to her nap is that it is sometimes only after an hour since she finished eating and it needs to be further. I think giving her the medicine in the morning sounds good, but that means we have to wake her up earlier (6.45) so we can finish everything without any pressure.

In the routine samples i found (read almost the entire thread) there were ALOT of feedings (with solids) - maybe you know something with 5 meals and 4 hour routine? BTW, yesterday i tried to play with her routine a little and it messed her up.

Thanks SO MUCH for your assistance. We are dealing with so many food issues and i do not want it to affect her routine and her sleep - if she does not sleep well she's less cooperative.

[*Liz*]

Looks like you have a very sleepy baby  but if it is working it truely is fine.

There isn't really any such thing as a 4hrly routine with 5 meals (unless you do 4 day feeds and a DF) - you have to tailor make the routine and you will get a eat/ sleep clash at some point in the afternoon. In these cases we just say to do a feed before the nap BUT make sure she doesn't feed to sleep. But if you do a nappy and your winddown then that can often be enough to seperate the association.

Bottom line is that your LO cannot do a normal EASY due to reflux - but the whole point of BW is to follow your LO's cues and create a scedule to suit them and encourage independent sleep. My DS has chaotic feedings for ages with his reflux. We sometimes just have to do the best we can  .

The risk of lots of milk feeds is snacking as Sarah said - but at the moment your LO is not doing that as they are going 12 hrs at night with no food.

FWIW we tried neocate at 6+mths and Jacob HATED it and refused it completely. There was NO WAY he was having it and my GI advised me that unless they had colitis or failure to thrive that sometimes it isbetter to treat the reflux and just wauit for them to outgrow the dairy issue. Ideally you would remove the dairy - but if you can't then that is an alternative. And Jacob did outgrow the MPI at 12 mths, but not the reflux.

You will know when it is time to change when your LO's naps get shorter, she starts to fight going down, or her nights get shorter. Until then no need to change  .

We would be happy to help you fit the feedings around longer A times when you need to though - but you may find you never need to do it as her solids start to fill that gap anyway.

[einatm]

Thank you so much! LizJ - did I understand correctly and Jacob did not get over the Reflux at 12 months? I'm doing my countdown since i forgot about improvement at 6 months (got even worse with solids), most doctors told us that it will pass at 12 months.

Thanks to the routine she has a normal life - I even got her to eat normally (not snacking like most recommendations i got) and not at night, but full meals - I do not know how to continue with everything.

When you guys are asking me if her Reflux is under control i really don't know what to day - YES? NO? - we are living with it, she cries during feeding and shows discomfort and she has a sensitive stomach. But she plays, she's developing and she's happy - the routine keeps her well fed and rested.

Can you please explain the last thing you said about solids? The routine samples have lots of meals in them... Would love your comments regarding routine with solids.

[*Liz*]

Yes you read correctly - Jacob still suffers with reflux at 17 mths old. I asked my paed about this a few days ago and was told that 90-95% of babies outgrow it at 12 months, and 97% by 2 years of age. So the odds are good but Jacob wasn't one of them.

[Jiinx]

Hi hun
Glad you're getting some wonderful advice from Liz about reflux and EASY!

Every lo is different with reflux..some can't sleep well, some can't eat well, some are miserable after etc. Mine could not eat well, but slept really well at night. Refluxers have sensitive tummies - with solid introduction, it is expected to have a bumpy ride. My doctor told me that with the introduction of rice cereal, things should subside. Uh..it resulted in constipation and a miserable straining-to-go baby.

Have you started solids? Don't let solid introduction be something scary..it's really about introducing her to this world of taste! Remember, until one year..formula (are you FF? EBF?) is all they need.

So what we do with solids:
5:30 wake up
E: 6:30
solids: 7:30
S: 8:40

etc...I just stick in solids wherever. I sometimes just give her a piece of apple and she happily sucks on it!
I hope that answers your question and puts your mind at ease somewhat. *hugs* good work on her EASY so far!

[einatm]

LizJ - i hope Jacob will outgrow the Reflux really soon (for you guys and for my hope that nowadays i really need).
This Reflux really kicks our bottom. It's always a struggle - good days and bed.
Jiinx - my baby likes to sleep, as you noticed - but sometimes the Reflux bother her. Last night she had a terrible attack of it after a really calm day, she was squirming in bed trying to find a position and could not sleep, what rarely happen. Passed after an hour and i found out she had a Banana, which could explain some of it.

We've started solids at 4months (new regulations) - tastes of 2-4tbsp a day and she LOVED it.
Then we started replacing the second meal of the day with fruits and we managed to replace the entire meal at 6mon but we found out that she can't hold it in and it upsets her tummy so we've decreased the amount of solids to half a meal and we're still there.

I did not understand - how many meals a day do you give? If my baby gets up at 7 and i give her a bottle (half an hour most days) - should i give her solids at 8? She goes to sleep at 8.30 most day. I read again this chapter last night in BWSAYP and i did not understand what i should do.

The most disturbing issue for me - how do i give her solids gradually in order not to upset her tummy?

[Jiinx]

hi einatm!
I give 4 breastfeeds a day and sometimes a nightfeed. With solids, I usually do 2-3 solids a day after her feeds.

Banana gave my lo a stomach ache. I haven't given it to her since trying it 4 times. She cried after each time so I think bananas are a bit hard for her. When you say replace the second meal - do you mean replace a BF?

I find reflux babies have sensitive tummies. I don't plan to introduce her to any grains until 9 months or so...rice cereal gets her constipated.
Yup you can try giving her some solids at 7:45 or 8...