Tired baby

[Evgenia]

Looking from what his routine looks like now, I think he may be UT for the morning nap, but after this short nap the following A even though on a shorter side for his age r causing him OT, which in turn gets worse as the day wears on and r also causing the NWs.
But at least now his routine is looking a lot more like what he should be doing at his age.

Heres what I would do:
1. Increase his As. Start with the first A of the day. At the moment it is 2.5h, typical A for his age is2.75-3h. Increase this A by 10-15m. Keep in mind that increasing A might not show any results for a few days, and always work on one A at a time.

2. Even with increased A he still might need some help extending this nap, here u could do pu/pd or shh/pat or w2s.

3. Once he takes a nice long nap, u can start working on the next A of the day. Again increase A and work on helping him to get through to the next sleep cycle.

4. U can also go into him jus before the 30m wake up mark and be there as he stirs and help him transition to the next cycle by either applying preasure (if it is jolts that r causing him to wake up) or just soothing with shh/pat or words r whatever helps him sleep.

5. It might actually be a good idea to just go into him on one of his naps and be there as he wakes up, just watch him and see what it is that is causing him to wake up, this might provide some usefull insights into what u can do to help him sleep longer.

6. If u notice him getting OT through out the day aim for an earlier bedtime, don't be afraid to put him down as early as 1 hour before his bedtime. An earlier bedtime wil be more beneficial than a short CN in the evening.

7. Also if he is up early from his nap, the time u spent trying to get him back to sleep should be included in his next A, and the next nap should be moved accordingly. With consistent short naps through out the day u may need to have his bedtime way early which is ok as this should allow him to sleep better during the night.

Hang in there! U r making progress even though at the moment it may not seem like it but u have made some serious improvments. This may take a while but trust ur hard work will pay off!!!

{{{Big Hugs}}} Nothing worse than sleepless nights.

Hope this helps

[confusedmummy]

I went in today and watched him during the last stages of his nap, and about 30 mins after he went to sleep he breathed heavily then just opened his eyes. He then pulled his dummy out and then started wailing not crying at first just loud moans.

How do I deal with that? Cannot hold him through jolts as there aren't any. I have tried W2S and he just wakes up earlier. Soothing him doesn't help either.

Sorry to sound so negative really want to try anything as today he only had 1x 20 min nap then 1x20 mins in car and 1x10 mins in car. Could not get him to have any other naps not even CN even though he was tired.

I have put him to bed tonight with 6 dummies in his cot but I don't think he will know to look for them. He has already woken up 3 times.

[Evgenia]

Don’t worry u r not being negative! Some los r that little bit harder to figure out, they all r so different what works for one will not necessarily work for another! Don’t worry we will figure it out!
Have a look at this post, it explains in detail the stages of sleep http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=64515.0

From what u describe I think ur lo had entered the deep sleep and woke up as he transitioned into REM.

When he pulled his dummy out, did he do it on purpose or was it more like an accident? Was he kind of startled when he woke up and pulled it out without realising? When he woke up did putting the dummy back in make any difference? I wonder if the moaning u described was mantra cry?

Has he been dummy dependant all along? Is there any other props u use to settle him to sleep? Like BF, rocking?

I wonder if dummy as a prop causing all this trouble with naps and night sleep? Maybe its time to wean? Heres a few  useful posts with info on that.  http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=67676.0
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=2361.0

Ur other option is to keep practicing putting the dummy in during A times throughout the day and keep putting a few in for naps and night. But do give it a bit of time for ur lo to get good enough at it to be able to replug at night or during naps. Though at the same time u will have to wean it eventually and it could be that little bit easier to do it now than when he is a toddler.

Has he been dummy dependant all along? Is there any other props u use to settle him to sleep? Like BF, rocking?

[confusedmummy]

I have started to wean him from his dummy today. I have stopped completely and am not using during the day, for naps or night sleeps. The day was fine no real issues. The first nap was also OK, but he is usually better on this one. He went to sleep with a little fussiness but not too much, woke up as usual after 30 mins and then after 10 mins I managed to get him back to sleep for about 1.5 hrs.

The second nap was not too good. He slept for 30 mins and then would not go back to sleep, just kept crying constantly with everything I tried. Although this may be because it was a little later than it should have been as we were out although he wasn't moody before hand.

I will keep persevering I have put him to bed 2 hours ago and he has not yet woken at all so fingers crossed all will be ok.

[Evgenia]

Amazing progress with am nap!!! Well done!!! So happy for u, bet u r starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel

The A before that short nap - was longer than usual by much? up to 15-20m should be ok for his age.

How long was the A before the long nap? It seemed to work perfect for him (no ut no ot) and I would aim for slightly longer A through out the day as the first A is the shortest.

Congrats on all the progress!!!

[confusedmummy]

Have now gone backwards I had one success with W2S the other day but on the next he woke up and I spent the next hour trying to get him back had to give in and get him up.

It seems it works some days an not the others. The A time on the successful long nap was actually only 2.15 hrs it seems that 3 hrs is too much for him some times. Going to try Ashton and Parsons to try and get him to sleep through the night as that hasn't improved either.

I really don't mind trying anything and keeping at it but just really want to see some improvement that lasts to know that it will eventually help him to sleep on his own. Have been rubbing his chest to calm him when crying as the patting doesn't work, but now it seems that he will only go to sleep with this. Just want him to be able to get to sleep on his own, and also allow his daddy to put him to bed, he won't at the moment, he will just cry louder and louder for hours until I try.

[Evgenia]

It is natural to have a set back a while after u get things sorted and figured out! Just hang in there!!!

for us W2S was always a bit of a trial and error... Might work like magic one day and do more harm then good the next.

Its ok that he is falling asleep with rubbing his tummy, its ur version of shh/pat.. I take it he is dummy free now?

I know it does seem like u made no progress but go back an look at what ur routine looked like only a while back, and look at it now - thats amazing progress!!!
It is taking him some time, but he is on his way to becoming an independent sleeper!!!

Just keep decreasing As if the nap beforehand was short. If u have few short naps during the day - earlier bedtime.

How long r his A's now? t does sound like he is in OT cycle, short naps and NWs. Stick to slightly shorter As and keep trying to extend his naps, so he can catch up on the rest that he needs, once he has better naps u can increase his As. Also keep in mind that usually when day sleep is sorted out, this leads to better night time sleep.

[confusedmummy]

He is going to sleep with out the dummy, but my partner has gone back to using it when he can't get him to sleep, he thinks he needs it for teething.

His A times vary from 2hrs to 3hrs depending on what we are doing. If we are out he seems ok to go for longer than 2hrs.

Sometimes he seems ok with just 45 mins sleep other times he is cranky, but I guess the short naps may be one of the things causing the night wakings, do you think that's right?

The problem is that I am going back to work in 6 weeks, and will be starting him off with the childminder in a couple of weeks to get him used to it, but I think that this may just completely wipe out any progress that may have been made so far (although it really doesn't seem like much), He does not like being with strangers and cries all the time. Really want to get the naps and NW's sorted before I start back at work as I will be exhausted.