11 mo old NW - no end in sight - I need to sleep!

[Giorgina]

Ladies, you are reading the post of a frazzled, exhausted mom.  Laura has STTN about 20times in her whole life.  Many of those were because she was sick   I know we are dealing with this 2-1 nap switch problem but as of now we do not have any napping problems - she is not refusing her naps.  However Laura's NW just don't seem to drop.  I'd welcome any suggestions on tweaking this routine.  She is in daycare M-F so her naps take place there.  These times are approximate.

Awake - 6:45/7:00am
Nap #1 start anytime btwn 10:00/10:30am - 11:30/12pm - she wakes herself at 1.5hour
Nap #2 3:00-4:00pm - she is awaken
Bed btwn 8:00/8:20pm - her doing as I start winddown around 7:30pm
NW #1 anytime btwn 2am and 4am - last anywhere from 40 minutes to 2 hours!!!
NW #2 5am - I BF at this one and put her back down

Do I need to ask daycare to bump up her A time between nap #1 & #2 as she only has 3 hour A time? 
Do I need to shorten a nap? 
Put her down at night earlier/later? 
During her NW she seems unable to fall back asleep - she tosses and turns and then she stands up and wants me to pick her up.  I usually do PD at this point.  This will eventually lead her to cry really hard.  I'll pick her up and hold her til she settles and put her back down - then the tossing and turning/PD dance starts again.  I don't think PD will solve the NW or am I wrong?  So what should I be doing during the NW?
Currently we are doing long AM/short PM.  For 2 days, we tried short AM/long PM but daycare said she was REALLY grumpy after her first nap -so we switched to long AM/short PM.  Even though they wake her at the 1 hour nap in the PM she wakes happy.  At this point I can deal with the 5am EW if I could just get some longer stretches of sleep at night. 

Sorry if this post is all over the place - that's just how my brain is right now.  I desperately need to get some sleep!!

TIA

[Tweakster]

HI there, I feel your pain.  Finn is 12 mths and still doesn't consistently STTN.  It's really hard.

Firstly, what's happening with her teeth?  For us 9 times out of 10 NW is from teething.

Do I need to ask daycare to bump up her A time between nap #1 & #2 as she only has 3 hour A time?

Personally, I would.  I think her morning A is short and then to have a second A that is short, maybe it's not enough for her and she is looking to socialize at night.

Do I need to shorten a nap? 

Yes possibly.  Since you say that long AM, short PM works better then possibly that PM will reduce to 45 mins or even less. 

During her NW she seems unable to fall back asleep - she tosses and turns and then she stands up and wants me to pick her up.  I usually do PD at this point.  This will eventually lead her to cry really hard.  I'll pick her up and hold her til she settles and put her back down - then the tossing and turning/PD dance starts again.  I don't think PD will solve the NW or am I wrong?  So what should I be doing during the NW?

This is what makes me think it's an A time issue.  It's happening when she's in lighter sleep.  When did she start daycare?  We just started Finn at daycare this week and having brutal SA issues.  Could she be having some SA spells?  I would aim to try to reduce the amount of physical interaction you are having, just using your voice to say your key phrase or let her know you are there.  And try to settle her in the crib as much as possible.  Sometimes PD is too stimulating.  You could do WI/WO and/or GW instead.

You mention too that she is taking a long time to fall asleep at night, does she just not seem tired?  Could be another sign of needing more A time/less day sleep.

Big hugs! 

[Giorgina]

Hi Wendy,
thanks so very much for responding.  I have been following your posts on Finn's trek to daycare.  I do hope it gets better soon. 
Laura was in daycare part time for Feb and full time now - since March 1st.  She is not showing any other SA signs (during waking hours or when I drop her off).  Is it possible that it only kicks in at night? 
Teeting - could play a role but I really don't beleive this is the sole cause - this girl didn't STTN before teeth.  Is the way to deal with this to give her pain meds at night?  Although I can say this made little difference the last 2 rounds of teething. 
In terms of A times, do you think you can provide me with a sample EASY routine that I can try?  I will read the WI/WO info and give that a go. 
Rearding bedtime, if I try to put her down at the 3.5hr A mark then she fights me til we are past the 4 hour mark.  I had decided to start bedtime at the 3.5 hour mark cuz I was afraid she'd get OT after the 1 hour nap.  Lately I have been questioning the logic of trying to put her down early since all I do is battle her.  Seriously, if I put her down after 8pm the battle is short or non-existant.  I'm thinking she must be able to handle long A times after a 1 hour nap - right?
Wendy, thanks so much for letting me bounce all of these thoughts at you.  Sometimes you need someone else to brainstorm with you!  That is why I am really appreciative of this website and all those who try to help.

[Tweakster]

HI there, I think teeth and change does play a big role.  So it could be a culmination of both.  Finn hasn't consistently slept through either, we pretty much go to bed not knowing whether or not we will be up.  It's always something with these LO's the first year.  If it's not teething, it's developmental, if it's not developmental, it's change, if not change...well you get the idea.

We have had luck with giving Motrin at bedtime and then doing a DF at around 12-1 a.m.  It seems to carry him over that 10 hour hump.  You could try it, it doesn't hurt :-)

Maybe try 3.75 hours and see if that is any easier?  4 hours is not unreasonable though if that's what she wants.

What about:
Awake 7
Nap 1.5 hrs 10:30-12 (A = 3.5)
Nap 45 mins 3:30-4:15 (A = 3.5)
Bedtime asleep by 8 (A = 3.75)

It gives her a longer A time in the middle and slightly less of a PM nap, she will be more tired for bedtime.