working towards STTN...thoughts please

[Chicane]

Hi everyone. we have finally sorted out our day naps yay! But now some issues at night...not sure what is happening. Your thoughts would be much appreciated. Here is what yesterday looked like and its fairly typical for the last week or so. My DS is EBF and a few days off being 7 months. We've started solids but he is really not into it and doesn;t eat any of it. Still testing.

Avergare Awake times are between 2.5 and 3 hours. This routine below can vary a bit.

Awake 6.30am
E 7am
A
S 9am between 1.15im - 2hours
E 11am (try solids)
A
S 2pm normally 1.30min - 2 hours
E 4pm
5 pm solids
6 pm bath and feed
S 6.30pm
DF 10pm
Wakes up around 12am get back to sleep on own
Wakes up 2am feed
Wakes up 4am this morning tried PUPD - took 20 mins then woke 30 mins later, tried PUPD ended up feeding slept until 7.15 am
This has been happening for the last three or four days

Any clues as to how I can get him to STTN and to fix these NWs? Should I try PUPD for every NW? Should i still feed once in teh night after DF? I am not sure that DF is working at all...I also want to try and move him to his own room as soon as possible. Should I wait until we've sorted out these issues or just do it? I've heard the longer I leave it the harder it will be for him to transition to his own room...

thanks!

[*Liz*]

Hi - I'm going to move this one over to NWings for you.

Essentially the routine aspect looks just fine really.

I would try going without the DF and see if it is better without as it can be more disruptive to night sleep for some LO's - and that is also why Tracey recommended weaning at 7 mths as it is more disruptive as they get older.

Worth a try?

 

[Chicane]

Thanks Liz. Update - so last night dropped the DF. Yesterday afternoon was a night mare, I don't know why and he didn't get is 2nd nap until 3pm but had a good 2 hour sleep but that meant bed time sleep didn't happen till 7pm. So, he woke at 10.20pm crying, tried PUPD, no good, fed him and he fed well - was hungry. Then he woke again 4 hours later, tried PUPD ended up feeding again he was hungry then he woke for that day just after 6pm. So I think what's happening is he is wanting to eat every 4 hours in the night (as in the day) He was for a while only feeding once in the night but thats gone out the window. Question: Should I continue to feed in the night when he wakes for a while (perhaps he just needs it) or should i try to work towards STTN by using PUPD even if it doesnt always work? And when should I try moving him to his own room? We've done so well to get the routine right am I expecting to much too soon with the other stuff?

He has always been very big eater, right from the start...and he is just not at all interested in solids...could he just be a little bit behind other bubs in the sense he still needs that food to get through to morning?

[sianie]

Hi there...agree that your routine looks fine.....from experience with DD1, I would say issue possibly lies with his feeds during the day, especially as you say he's a hungry LO. They go thru a major growth spurt around 6mths & if he's not taking well to solids, that explains his NW as he may well not be getting enough calories during the day to get him through the night?!

When you feed him during the night, how much does he generally take? If he takes a whole feed then he's not getting enough during the day, if he's just snacking at night, could be it's become a habit? Answer to this will determine which course of action to take.

What solids have you tried &  how have you tried to introduce them?

Noy sure if any of this helps?! 

[Chicane]

Hi sianie - thanks for getting back. I do think its hunger in the night as he will take both full boobs (takes about 10 mins each). So yes I guess I to find a way to get him to have maybe one or even two more feeds in the day. We started playing around with solids at 6 months with puree. We started with baby rice, then moved on to pear then sweet potato. He seemed to be getting the hang of it and had a few times where he actually seemed to love it and eat a lot. Now for some reason he's gone off it all completely. Went back to just baby rice and he doesn't even want that. I had done a bit of research into baby led weaning and wondered if he just wanted to skip puree and get stuck into hand held food. He's not sitting up on his own yet so was holding off starting it but today gave him a slice of pear...he wasn't really into it....who knows? I think tonight if he wakes I will feed him...and also try to get another feed in the day somewhere...

[*Liz*]

Regarding the weaning - if your LO is showing very little interest in purees I would start BLW. Sure, it may take weeks for him to actually eat anything but all the exposure to taste and texture is important and will really pay off later wwhen he does start to eat.

My LO had a lot of issues with solid introduction due to relux and when he really wasn't eating he was under the feeding team who always said food play and opportuniy to familiarize themselves is very important. I can't count how many times J had to be given fruit before he ate it - literally for months he would just squash it or fling it as he didn't like the slimy texture. But he does eat it now - so I think a good 6 mths of exposure to accept it.

I guess what I am saying is there is no harm in offering as you never know when they may take to it iyswim?

Personally at this stage I would be happy with 4hrly night feedings I think while you work towards increasing the daytime calories.

I do have sympathy though - my DS was 11 mths before he finally dropped his last night feed. FINALLY  . Just didn't wake for it for a few days and never did again.

[sianie]

Agree with Liz...some good advice 

Unfortunately, LO's will do things in their own time and you can't make him eat solids if he doesn't want to.....did anything specific happen to stop him eating them? Have you tried giving him half his milk feed then trying some solids? Patience is the greatest thing you need at the mo 

I think until you get his daytime eating sorted you will need to carry on feeding him at night as he is obviously hungry! 

[Chicane]

thanks Gals - yep, i think you are both right. This afternoon I got an extra feed in and will try to do one more before bath and final feed and see how tonight goes. And yeah - think I just have to go with him. I cant' think of anything that happened to make him stop trying the puree. We did go to MILs for a week at Easter but managed to keep our routine up almost perfectly. Who knows? It comforting to know that other bubs took a while to drop the night feeds.

Liz - with the BLW do you think it matters that he is not sitting up on his own yet? I put him in his little rocker chair to 'eat' but have it on stationary so it doesn't rock. Its fairly upright...all the BLW stuff i've read talks about them sitting up on their own...

[*Liz*]

I think they need to be pretty upright - but I think a fair few bubs need a bit of support to do it at that age. J's HC gave him that anyway  .

Why not ask the ladies on the BLW thread and see what they all did?
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=136091.0

[Jiinx]

hiya chicane You could try to sit him in a bumbo with a tray attachment?

Sending some STTN vibes *hugs*

[Chicane]

Hey Jinx - I would love a bumbo but you just cant get them where i am (small town on an even smaller island) and the shipping is way too much for us...bummer.

Anyway - update on last night. Got an extra feed in the afternoon and he slept from 6.30pm until 12.00am an improvement. he fed then and then slept until 2am when he woke crying, I held him for about 5 mins he calmed down then talked himself to sleep for a while. (not sure how long) then he sletp till 6 am. So i think this is a good improvement. Problem was that I woke up at 4am then at 4.30 then at 5!!! I hate that!

Will see how tonight goes. I am thinking that moving him to his own room is really going to help with this so today's mission is to finally finish fixing the nursery.

thanks guys

[sianie]

We moved DD into her own room at 5 mo & she (& us!) slept a lot better......I found that we used to wake each other up (especially DH's snoring  ).

Bumbo's are good......shame you can't get hold of one.....we have the same problem getting stuff to where I live too