13.5mth old sleep questions

[juele]

Hi 

J is 13.5mths old and is your typical Textbook Toddler.  I've been spending the last 4 months or more with the 2-1 Transition and just found that he doesn't mind doing the 1 nap these days (with the exception of the odd day or two  where he might have a 30 minute pm nap).

So our day generally looks like this:

6-6:30am Wake/BF
7am Breakfast etc
9am Snack
10/11am Sleep/Nap (2hrs)
12/1pm Lunch
4:30/5pm Dinner
7/7:30pm Sleep (sometimes has the occasional NW but generally easy to put back down)

Now this looks pretty good, I guess, but its the putting him back to bed thing that's getting more and more difficult as he's heavier, more wriggly at times etc.

Basically, J either needs to be BF to sleep or held and rocked/walked to sleep.  I can't even remember how we got to this, as he learnt to Sleep on his own with the WI/WO approach when he was about 7 months old (if i still remember correctly).  I was totally against BF him to sleep as i knew that it would become a problem later, but i couldn't help it when i was doing the 2-1 Nap Transition. what would happen was.... when it came close to nap time, J was due for his BF (and he would ask for it too) so I would give it to him and he would fall asleep.
Its the same at night. He usually has a BF after his bath and wind down and he falls asleep with me. But there are some nights it doesn't work and some nap times it wont work either.  I also don't want to have to rely on BF him all the time to get him to bed as i know he is capable to independently doing it.  We have tried the GW approach a few months ago as well and that was going alright but now we are back to square 1. Sometimes we even have to wrap/swaddle him to sleep as there is no way we can actually tuck him in bed without resisting.  He also stand a lot and just cries not wanting to sit/lie down in his bed unless we revert to BF or holding/rocking him to sleep.

So here are my questions:

1. At this stage, How do i choose between the WI/WO and the GW approach in trying to sleep train him? (As they both worked in the past)

2. If I do the WI/WO do i keep telling him the phrase "time to go night-night ..." everytime i come in? or would i only say it the first couple of times and then just come in and not say a word and lie him down all the other times?

3. What if he doesn't want to lie down when i put him down? As he just stands right back up and get more upset. Should i pick him up and wait till he is calm to put him down? - or will this just take us back to the original problem of holding him to get to sleep?

4. Over the last 3 days now J has woken up around 5:30 and sometimes a little earlier. I have been so exhausted that i just BF him and my husband tries to put him back to bed in his own room but the first 2 nights he just didn't want to sleep. he was wide awake so our day started nice and early. Today was the 3rd day and he woke up about 5:20am and when i BF him he fell asleep with me on our bed. We drifted in and out of sleep till about 7am.  He did get a couple of bottom teeth just cut through a few days ago too so I'm not sure if the EW will still continue, but what should i do to make sure it doesn't continue? - last time we had this problem it was due to Nap time issues but we have no such problems at the moment.

Thanks so much all you Baby Whispering Gurus! All your help and feedback are just priceless!

[~*Nicole*~]

Hi....let me see if I can answer some of your questions.

1. At this stage, How do i choose between the WI/WO and the GW approach in trying to sleep train him? (As they both worked in the past)

---It mostly depends on what you think will work best for you and him. It's a personal choice...what you are most comfortable with. I personally feel as though GW draws the process out but is gentler...and that wi/wo is a bit more abrupt but works more quickly. I never had to do either for real but I like the idea behind wi/wo b/c I feel like GW prolongs the inevitable and you're likely to have to do some type of wi/wo at the end when you eventually leave and aren't there, ywkim? I also think wi/wo works well with LOs who were ind. sleepers in the past as they do KNOW how to sleep but are resisting b/c they prefer another way (rocking/BFing etc.)

2. If I do the WI/WO do i keep telling him the phrase "time to go night-night ..." everytime i come in? or would i only say it the first couple of times and then just come in and not say a word and lie him down all the other times?

--I actually can't remember but there is a FAQ about this and it explains it very well. If I find it I'll come back and post the link.

3. What if he doesn't want to lie down when i put him down? As he just stands right back up and get more upset. Should i pick him up and wait till he is calm to put him down? - or will this just take us back to the original problem of holding him to get to sleep?

--Again, I'm not positive myself, but I believe the link explains this as well.

4. Over the last 3 days now J has woken up around 5:30 and sometimes a little earlier. I have been so exhausted that i just BF him and my husband tries to put him back to bed in his own room but the first 2 nights he just didn't want to sleep. he was wide awake so our day started nice and early. Today was the 3rd day and he woke up about 5:20am and when i BF him he fell asleep with me on our bed. We drifted in and out of sleep till about 7am.  He did get a couple of bottom teeth just cut through a few days ago too so I'm not sure if the EW will still continue, but what should i do to make sure it doesn't continue? - last time we had this problem it was due to Nap time issues but we have no such problems at the moment.

---On these days is he offered an earlier nap in the morning and a catnap later (as he did prior to one nap???) Or you could offer a short morning nap and then just slightly push back his usual afternoon naptime to get him through to a normal bedtime. This would likely be the best way of tackling EWs as he is undoubtedly overtired. I imagine he can't settle back to sleep on his own at this point and you can try wi/wo OR just get him up and offer two naps and hope he catches up and has a later wake up the following day. Also compensating with an earlier bedtime to help combat NWs and overall OT accumulation. During teething A times tend to go out the window and LOs need more sleep. I'd be willing to bet he needs 2 naps during teething or illness and that general OT is the culprit of your issues. He will still resist sleep b/c of the BFing association/prop, etc. but you can work on that with the wi/wo and still offer more sleep times to try to get him more well rested. He'll be easier to sleep train if he is getting enough overall sleep to begin with.

HTH. I'll look for the link now.

[~*Nicole*~]

Here's the link on how to choose which method. It is not the exact one I was looking for. I'll keep looking for more a more detailed link.

http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=80750.0

[~*Nicole*~]

Grrr I am not finding what I was looking for since the search function is not up and running.

Hopefully others will pop on and answer what I could not.

Best of luck.

[juele]

Thanks so much.

I've read the "Walk In/Walk Out vs. The Gradual Withdrawal Method (HOW TO CHOOSE)" a few times in the past already and will recap on this - but i guess i'm just a bit unsure about the specifics of some of the approach when it comes to practice.

I think the WI/WO approach suits us the best. I find as the months have gone by, i'm loosing my stamina for the GW Method too.

I hope this works. This morning J woke up at around 4:50am (ITS GETTING EARLIER!) 
He ended up taking a nap at 9am for 1.5hrs because he was so tired (had to wake him up cause he was just so sound asleep), and i'm about to put him down for another nap soon at 12:30pm for another 1hr. hopefully all goes well tonight.  My husband will be on sleep duty tonight so we will set out a plan of action for the WI/WO method. I will also give him a BF before his bath so he isn't tempted to fall asleep and we'll take it from there. Wish me LUCK!

[juele]

PM Nap - SUCCESS!!!

Did WI/WO for about 30minutes J eventually put himself to sleep! I hope tonight goes as smoothly

[beckygatt]

Hi!

Just wanted to say I was in your exact situation about a week ago. My 13 month old would only sleep in my arms. She did once sleep independently but it was too long ago for her to remember.
So I started GW a week ago. I started with the morning nap. Did nap routine, gave her a kiss and cuddle and laid her down in cot. That first time she stood up and cried! She spent about 10 mins crying on and off but I just sat near her talking to her. When she stopped crying I looked at the floor so as not to make eye contact. I looked up 5 mins later to find her asleep! In standing! I lay her down and left. Since then she's got better and better. At  first she didn't associate lying with sleeping so I used to occasionally lay her down myself but otherwise let her stand walk or whatever till she tired herself out. No when I lay her down she will sometimes just lie there and dose off, sometimes toss and turn or play a bit then lie down and fall asleep. She still wakes at night sometimes; I go in. talk to her gently, and make sure she can find paci. And NW seem to be improving (touch wood!) Last night she slept right through!! I am now going to gradually move my chair towards the door. I thought this method would be more traumatic but it hasn't been at all bad. Now she hardly ever cries and if she does not for long  and only cos she's tired.

Anyway. I don't know if you've decided to go with WIWO but I thought I'd share my experience and tell you to hang in there. I've already achieved something I never  thought I'd see and hopeffully it will keep getting better.

Good luck!!

[juele]

Thank you so much "*Nicole-Ava's mom*" & "beckygatt" for your feedback.

I've come to post the success we have had so far.

So it looks like we've been doing WI/WO for about a week now and I can definitely say it is going GREAT.
On average it has been taking us about 20-25 minutes to put J to bed, with the exception of one night taking 1hr.

The approach we take is a little bit of a mix of the BabyWhisperer method and something else i read.
Basically, once he's wound down and put to bed we say our "goodnights" give him his paci and Walk Out.
We usually try to wait for 5 minute intervals between Walking In again (with the exception of 'really upset' cries), which hasn't happened too often. A vital thing we have also been practicing, is the fact that when we WI, we comfort him in the cot without picking him up. Because of this, he has gradually learnt that when its sleeptime he has to stay in bed, and mum or dad wont come and pick him up and walk him around anymore.

So all in all it is going FANTASTIC. over the last few nights he's crying lesser and lesser when we do WI/WO and sometimes just stops crying as soon as we come in.

I think we had 1 NW during the last week, but that was it. Overall great with that, and the EW has been getting much better. Now getting up around 6:30 or sometimes 7 or later. However we do get the exception of him waking up around 4ish where we give him some water and put him back to bed again.

I also am not doing the WI/WO during his 1 nap which is usually at around 11:30 or 12noon (for 2 hours) by that time i just give him milk and he's so tired he just zonks out. I feel that if i needed to though he would be fine with the method during the day as well.

So thats all for us for now.  At this stage we are just doing a balancing act with his 1 nap and sometimes Early Wakings to make sure he can stay on track and catch up on sleep when he needs to, which it looks like we have achieved (only time will tell)

THANK YOU SO MUCH AGAIN LADIES!!!!

And if anyone else is reading this because you have the same problem, all i can say is pick an approach/method and stick with it and have the patience to see it through. The results will COME!!!!