A time and prop related nap problems - super frustrating!

[veryrebs]

I'm looking for help with my almost 7.5 month DD's EASY routine.

She's been on a E-A-S routine from the beginning, thanks to my mom's advice - I have 9 siblings so she had 10 children altogether. After finally getting through all my baby sleep books (all the biggies - Ferber, Weissbluth, Pantley, Karp, etc.) I wisely recognized that the BW way was the one that made the most sense and LOL closely resembled my mom's philosophy. I started with the typical A times for her age, and now I'm trying to figure out if she is low (day) sleep needs or what the heck she has against naps. Loves her nights, hates her naps.

Some quick stats on Livie: 7.5 months; super duper spirited; short tempered; formula fed; severe, though medicated, reflux - spits-up like a volcano but it doesn't hurt her most of the time; sleeps in a woombie swaddle due to her still crazy startle reflex/eye rubbing and...opens her eyes 35 minutes into naps since she was about 3 months old!

My husband and I are both engineers, so I have a record of nearly everyday of her life. DH says I should write a book called "Engineering a Baby". I'm in the process of extending her A times to permanently say goodbye to the catnap as she's at the point where she'd only take it for me and only about 25% of the time. I only try for a catnap now if the afternoon nap ends before 3:00pm.

Yesterday:
S until 5:15am
E 5:20am - 5 oz.
S 5:45am-6:45am
E 7:30am - 1oz.
A 3h 5m [8:40am - Breakfast, 5 tbs.]
S 9:50am-10:20am (crib); 10:20am-11:15am (held)
E 11:35am - 6 oz.
A 3h 10m [11:55am - Lunch, 4.5 tbs.]
S 2:25pm-3:00pm (crib); 3:05pm-3:55pm (held)
E 4:10pm - 4 oz.
A 4h 5m [5:10pm - Dinner, 4 tbs.]
E 7:10pm - 6 oz.
A [diaper change, swaddle, etc.]
S 8:00pm (up 9:40pm-9:55pm, either OT or teeth)

Today:
S until 6:10am
E 6:15am - 4 oz.
A 2h 25m [8:00am - Breakfast, she only ate 1 of 4 tbs. due to her teeth I think]
S 8:35am-9:15am (crib); 9:30am-10:20am (held)
E 10:50am - 6.5 oz.
A 3h 20m [11:55am - Lunch, 4 tbs.]
S 1:30pm-2:00pm (crib); 2:10pm-2:50pm (held)
E 3:00pm - 4 oz.
A 1h 45m [4:00pm - Dinner, 4 tbs.]
S 4:45pm-5:10pm (held)
A 2h 30m
E 7:00pm - 7 oz.
A (diaper change, swaddle, etc.)
S 7:40pm

It is important to note that I have tried letting her catnap through the day and she is one miserable little lady by the end of day. That's why I'm not sure if she is low sleep needs or what the heck is up!

[*Liz*]

Does she fall asleep independently at the beginning of sleeps?

[veryrebs]

For a while we could lay her down with her eyes wide open and she would go to sleep on her own w/i a few minutes. In the last couple of weeks she has needed more help and I think it is b/c of the extending A times.

For example:
This morning's nap I read her a book on our bed (she loves that), took her into her room, turned on her lullabies, gave her the pacifier, sat still with her on the rocker while patting her hip for a few minutes. At her first "long" blink, I put her in her woombie, laid her in the crib, held my hand on her chest for a minute and then left. She closed her eyes, popped out the pacifier and went to sleep on her own.

This afternoon's nap I did the same thing and when I put her in the crib, her eyes widened and she started rolling around and trying to stretch her way out of the woombie. I tried patting, etc. and though she was almost out a few times, I had to pick her back up and hold her still for a few more minutes. I admit her eyes were closed when I laid her back down, but she wasn't "out" yet.

At night she always goes to sleep on her own. She loves to sleep at night.

[*Liz*]

I wonder if she is a bit UT still then - perhaps try extending the A time a bit more and see if that helps. Then hopefully she will transition without needing your help everytime. But now I have said that - how fast have you extended the A times? When I wasn't sure with J I used to reduce them by 10 mins first to check for OT, and if it didn't help then I would start to push them again. I prefered it this way to risking mega OT.

The other thing is whether it might be time to wean the woombie if she is starting to fight it?

[veryrebs]

I've been extending from 2.5 hours to 3 hours for over a month now. In reality she was still sometimes getting tired at the 2 hour mark (not boredom), but I knew if I put her down then that she'd take the 35 minute nap and I'd never be able to extend even holding her. That is really the only way I know when she needs A increases...I start to have trouble extending.

Today was nearly identical in terms of putting her down for naps; the morning was fine and the afternoon was a bit rocky. One thing I did notice is that she is finally adapting to the increased A times. She didn't really start to get cranky/tired until about the 2h 45m mark. Finally!

My husband and I have had the woombie debate about twice a day now for months lol. We know we have to get her out of it, but other than the afternoon nap (we never used it for the catnap) she never resists it. Every other week I try putting her down for her naps without it and everytime it takes her a superlong time to fall asleep and she tosses and turns and wakes fully w/i 20 minutes b/c she's rubbing her eyes. She actually gets mad b/c she wants to be asleep but can't stop rubbing her eyes. The thing is that the woombie is actually progress - she was in the miracle blanket until 4.5 months or so. At least in the woombie she can move her arms and legs around some.

We've just gotten the next size up and it is pretty loose on her, so hopefully that will be another step forward in getting rid of it altogether. I need to find some kind of socks that will stay on her hands b/c I think that is going to be the following step. Her arms and legs jolting are no longer the problem, only the eye rubbing at this point keeps/wakes her up.

Considering today was the first day she handled 3h+ A times well (3h, 3h 5m & 3h 30m), when should I try another increase? Right away? A few days?

And even though I only shoot for 90 minute naps (let's face facts here - she will never be a 2h napper), how do I handle the bottle/solids feedings? At 4.5h apart for most of the day, her last two bottles wind up at only 3-3.5 hours apart and she's already started drinking less of her bedtime bottle. Her night sleep is pretty good so I really don't want her decreased milk intake to mess with that!

[*Liz*]

Considering today was the first day she handled 3h+ A times well (3h, 3h 5m & 3h 30m), when should I try another increase? Right away? A few days?

A few days time - always extend every 3ish days to avoid OT.

It sounds as though your LO just has quite a strong body clock and needs encouragement to extend them though.

And even though I only shoot for 90 minute naps (let's face facts here - she will never be a 2h napper), how do I handle the bottle/solids feedings? At 4.5h apart for most of the day, her last two bottles wind up at only 3-3.5 hours apart and she's already started drinking less of her bedtime bottle.

What I did was allow the 2 middle bottles to get close together first (yep - that does mean a prenap bottle - but J never fell asleep drinking it and then we would do winddown and off to sleep). Then after a few weeks of that I combined the 1st and 2nd bottles so he was on 3 a day instead and that moved him away from a prenap feed. But I found it better to have too much food in the middle of the day as that gave me a better nap and preserved a decent bedtime bottle. Solids can bridge the gap to the bedtime bottle. On days it went wrong I would give half the bottle pre and half the bottle post nap.

[veryrebs]

Thanks so much Liz, I will try giving a bottle before the afternoon nap after the weekend. My husband does a lot of the care on the weekend and he doesn't like to be the first to implement anything LOL. She's eating solids pretty well, so moving the bottle before the nap makes sense as she'll still have her dinner after she wakes up.

I think I am running out of time to fix these naps as even after a 3h 2nd A time today, it took me 10 minutes to get her back to sleep after the 35 minutes. It was day 3 of trying w2s again so I didn't pick her up before she woke. Grrrrrr. I wish I could reset her body clock!

BTW-I just read your tickers and congratulations on the new addition! I don't know how you find the time to help others with their routines while taking care of a newborn! Thank you

[veryrebs]

I've been getting help with getting rid of holding her through her naps on the props board, but I think our EASY still needs work.

I should note that I'm really trying to avoid picking her up during her naps anymore. She wasn't crying in the crib so I am simply standing there trying to wait her out, but leaving before she's asleep. She started crying today, so I don't know what I'm going to do now.

Also, we are down to 3 bottles and limiting each solids meal to 4 tbs. as suddenly she wants nothing to do with her milk. Very strange since we have never had trouble getting her to drink even with her reflux until this month.

Yesterday:
S until 6:30am
E 6:35am - 6 oz.
A 3h 25m [8:00am - Breakfast, 4 tbs.]
S 9:55am-11:15am (crib - a complete miracle)
A 3h 45m [12:00pm - Lunch, 4 tbs.]
E 2:00pm - 6 oz.
S 3:00pm-3:45pm (crib - I waited her out until 4:25pm, but no dice)
A 3h 25m [4:30pm - Dinner, 4 tbs.]
E 6:45pm - 5.25 oz.
A [diaper change, swaddle, etc.]
S 7:10pm

Today:
S until 6:30am
E 6:50am - 6 oz.
A 3h 30m [8:00am - Breakfast, 4 tbs.]
S 10:00am-10:35am (crib); 10:55am-11:10am (crib - woke up crying)
A 1h 50m [12:00pm - Lunch, 4 tbs.]
S 1:00pm-1:15am (carseat - we *had* to go get her medicine & I couldn't keep her up! );
E 1:45pm - 6 oz.
A 1h 15m
S 2:30pm-3:15pm (crib - wouldn't go back even with APOP & was crying)
A 3h 10m [3:45pm - Dinner, 4 tbs.]
E 6:00pm - 5.75 oz.
A [diaper change, swaddle, etc.]
S 6:25pm

I admit today after the carseat catnap I had no idea when to put her down again (w/o that catnap I had intended to shorten her A by 30 minutes). Obviously, trying to get rid of the prop for naps is messing things up, but I've got to get her routine right so I'm only dealing with one problem at a time!

Before I was working on the prop she was waking at 7:00am, so I guess the EW's are starting from (napping) OT?

[*Liz*]

Looks like the A is perhaps a tad too long- perhaps aim to have her down at 3h 15ish and see if that helps.

But then I would just leave alone and give her chance to adjust to it all - and she should really.

J used to do mid nap wakeups at this Ge and then drift back off again.