Help. 5 MO refusing catnap.

[mumofjojo]

I'm trying to sleep train my 5 month old DS using shush pat with varying degrees of success with a range of issues but the thing that is just not working at all is the catnap. For the other naps he isn't self settling yet but is okay to settle using shush pat but for CN no matter what I do he just won't go to sleep.

While we are sleep training we are using tracy's recommended 4 hour EASY ie

7am up for the day and bf
9am  - 11am sleep (this week i'm staying in there with him for the 2 hours and intervening shh/patt, httj to keep him asleep for naptime so with this he will sleep for at least 1.5 hours - before this week of training would go 45mins if lucky
11am  eat
1 - 3pm same as previous nap
3pm eat
5pm attempted cat nap - lots of crying no sleeping
6.30pm bath
7.00pm final feed (which he is normally more or less asleep through and I am now waking him slightly to pat shush to sleep in bed rather than feeding him to sleep which i have been doing.

He is normally very irritable (compared to the day although in general he is a pretty happy baby) coming up to bedtime.

What should I do? I feel like he still needs the catnap as he is tired after he should have taken it. The evenings are so hard and I am always on edge by the time DH gets home.

We have just brought his bedtime forward by half an hour and if we bring it forward any further he won't see his Dad for five days a week!

[empowered mama]

hi there

Just to clarify, does your LO wake from the first and 2nd naps after 1.5 hrs?  or 2 hrs?  I think your LO is getting OT by the end of the day, and we may need to tweak the routine a little to see if he will accept the catnap.

[mumofjojo]

It varies a bit. We have only started sleep training this week and I am in there trying to get him to nap for the full two hours (which I plan on doing for 2 weeks to see if I can teach him to sleep independently) For every nap this week except one his total nap time has been more than 1.5 hours. He isn't sleeping through all that time by himself though. A typical pattern has been asleep for 45mins, wake up, take 5 mins to resettle, bit more sleep say 15mins, stir briefly, resettle etc. Then with the first sleep cycle and the disturbed second one it will add up to somewhere between 1.5-2hours. He is normally asleep at the end of the 2 hour period as if he wakes up in last 15mins I will keep shush patting til the end of the nap period. Thanks!

[*Ali*]

Well done. Sounds like you are doing great for your LO and I'm sure all your hard work will pay off.
Could you AP the CN for now as he will probably drop it in a month or 2 anyway? Maybe you could go out for a nice walk with the pushchair if he will sleep in that. Personally if he woke after 1.5hrs I would get him up and start the 2 hours A time from then but I appreciate you are sleep training at the moment.. Have you tried reducing the A time before the CN in case he is already OT by then? Maybe he needs 1hr45 A time for that A. If he refuses the CN on some days I think you need to do an early BT as being awake from 4-7pm is way too long at his age.
What are his nights like? Does he STTN or have NWs?
We have exactly the same problem as you with regards to DS not seeing DH if he has early BT but I do it now and then as required.
Good luck.

[mumofjojo]

Thanks. I will try walking in his pram with a shorter A time this afternoon as a first go. He loves to sleep in his pram but I have stopped that since reading BW to try and teach him to nap in his cot. But if he refuses to CN and I am doing the others in his cot I guess this is better than him being so OT at bedtime?

He used to STTN but stopped around 4 months. I was given Save our Sleep as a present but never tried it as I didn't like it but it said that night time sleep cycles change around 4-5 months and if your LO can't self settle by then they will start NW. DS has been waking about hourly for the last month so as this was at the time SOS predicted I thought this was the main reason why.

I had been looking around for a way to teach self settling because everything else I read involved leaving him to cry which I didn't want to do so have had a lot of sleepless nights with no end in sight until discovering BW. We still have sleepless nights but are now at least working towards a solution (fingers crossed).

Anyway because of that I didn't consider other reasons for the NW. Can a long awake time before bed like what happens if he won't catnap contribute to NW?

[*Ali*]

OT resulting from a long A time before bed (or for any other reason) can definitely cause NW as it means they can't get into good quality sleep. If my LO gets OT he always has a NW about an hour or so after BT. Sometimes he just goes back by himself but sometimes he needs help from DH or me.
The APing of the CN isn't strictly in line with BW theology but it is the first nap to go so will be easy to stop if you are doing independent sleep for the other 2 naps and BT. And if you're anything like me you'll want to retain his ability to sleep in the pushchair sometimes so you're not housebound for all his naps. I think a lot of parents do the same. Plus why spend so long teaching him to CN independently when by the time he gets it you;ll be close to dropping it anyway? Just what I would do.
Yes it;s very common for babies to start waking at night around 4mo, that's one reason why a lot of mums start feeding their LO solids too early b/c they think they must be hungry. But as you say it is just developmental and they really need sleep training a lot of the time.
Hopefully you'll find as he gets better with the independent sleep he'll be able to resettle himself at night without waking up full and you won't even know he woke.
Fingers crossed for you.

[empowered mama]

Agree with PP on OT before bedtime.  Actually, she has clarified everything quite perfectly

[mumofjojo]

Okay so have tried your suggestions for 2 days. The first day no luck but yesterday took DS for a walk in the pram after 1 hour 40mins A time. He fought sleep and did that frustrated I don't want to sleep (or maybe I do but I can't) cry for 20mins and I was about to give up as he normally sleeps straight away in the pram but then he napped for 40mins. He was then in a much better mood up til bedtime. Thanks for your help. It didn't stop the early NWs but I think that's due to other factors as well.

[*Ali*]

Glad it's working out for you. NW are a combination of factors sometimes. I definitely found they dropped when DS was sleeping independently and also when he moved to a 4hr easy at 4.5mo.
Good luck. I hope it all continues to improve for you.

[Buntybear]

HI,

Cadie's Mum has given some great advice  . I would just echo AP'ing the CN to preserve bedtime. It should be for such a short period of time and he clearly needs a sleep more than he does training at that time of the day! I used to take DS out daily for his CN as like yours he refused it in his cot more often than not (and this was after sleep training from 4 weeks old!). Now he is older he won't sleep in his pushchair though 

We haven't had NW from OT but did have them from about 4-6 months due to a VERY long growth spurt  . Again agree that once your LO is sleep trained he will do much better at night.

Not sure on your LO's sleep needs but if my LO sleeps more than 1.5 hours in the am than I know I won't get more than 1hr in the pm. I would normally wake him up after 1.5 hours unless I know we are going out in the aft and he won't get a good nap.

You are doing great - it will be worth it