3.75yo now scared of the dark and stalling at bedtime, help!

[spodnic]

Hi all, DS has been stalling at bedtime for almost the past year, now we've finally been able to get out of him he doesn't like the dark. I Think it's been a few different things like adjusting to new baby, pre-school, now nursery, etc. At my wit's end here as nothing seems to be working to get him down without a song and dance. He's used the following stalling tactics in the past:

Need the toilet
Tuck me in
Heard a noise
Lost his teds
Leg/arm hurting

He now has two nightlights which worked for a while, now he's complaining he "can't see the shine of it" when he lays down (it's across the room from him). Generally he sleeps through but my 10m DD has been NW due to a cold last couple of nights, this has disturbed him and he was up 3 times last night. He keeps asking a lot of "what if" questions (very spirited and imaginative boy). I usually do minimal interaction, make him get into bed, tell him he is safe, don't shout, always trying to be quiet because of baby (but not mentioning that bit to him). LAst night I tried to reason with him (why bother?!?!) so I think tonight I will not talk AT ALL, warning him first this is what will happen. The threat of taking toys away, no presents at Xmas etc are not working, even though when we chat about it in the day, he promises to go to bed nicely. Not motivated by reward charts. I thought of giving him a torch but he will lay there playing with it.

Anyway, anyone have any suggestions for a plan of action? Going nuts here!

[babybarr]

Bumping your post

[spodnic]

Thanks! Where is it now?

[anna*]

(((hugs)))

I don't know if I can help because my guy is younger, but we had similar problems a few weeks ago. Somethings I found which helped.

* No TV before bed.
* Playing games about 'being scary' and 'being scared', and letting him be scary, and me be scared, and then have him give me a cuddle and me not be scared any more
* Just simply saying 'You know, you don't have to be scared, mummy and daddy will always look after you.'
* Not giving into requests to have ever more numbers of nightlights open. He has one very dim nightlight, and is allowed to go to sleep with his door a little bit open (started off as half way open and now is 6" open) IF he lies quietly in bed. If he's noisy, I have to close the door.
* Going back to him for another kiss. First after 1 minute, then after 2 mins, then 3 mins etc. I have to be careful not to over-use this one, only do it when he is upset and overtired.
* Lullabies CD. Usually he doesn't want it, but if he is OT/OS it gives him something to do to listen to the music while he drifts off rather than lying there trying to think of reasons to get me to come back.
* Wind down. Take a while longer. Talk to him all about his day, almost as if it was a story, what he did, who he saw, what he ate, ending up with lying down in bed with mummy having a cuddle. This really helps Stan to process his day and switch off.

Another thing you could try with fears is to use that 'what if' curiosity to take the heat out of the fear. Like, what if, the monster was really scared of you! What if the monster just needed a cuddle. What if it was a funny monster who told jokes and ate pillows! That's obviously for daytime though.

Definitely agree with not trying to reason with him.

How is his counting? If he likes numbers, you could give him three 'tokens' (ie big buttons or cards) and he is allowed to call you back three times, and each time he gives you one of the tokens. When two have been used up you remind him that the last token is the last time you will come back. I'd try to avoid threats, that's not going to help his anxiety levels.

[spodnic]

Thanks Anna, definitely some stuff I never thought of here. I tried the silent approach and after 8 times putting him back in he said, "mum, I'm going to sleep now, can you shut my door?" Yes, I thought, cracked it! Went down to tell DH all about it then guess what, 5 mins later and he was up again. Grrr! The last two nights we've had tears and ended up quietly talking but it's tiredness in the end that's worn him down rather than a solution.

Agree with the TV rule, he's at nursery pm but only normally get to watch it during DD's naps and it's always off by 4pm. We're always saying he's safe, we're here, etc. He has 2 stories in his room.

Really thinking about the thrests now, makes perfect sense it will only add to his anxiety. Just hard to be firm without using them asfter doing it for so long. I've just reinstated the Superstar Board, whereby good behaviour means his star stays on it, if he's going to misbehave I say "now you don't want to be doing that, otherwise you'll have to come down off the superstar board and that would be a real shame". Not that it's working so far, but it's been nice to reward his good behaviour.

[anna*]

He might need a bit of a longer wind-down. I know it's time consuming, but my LO needs more like 3 or 4 stories - we lie down together, and he gets gradually more relaxed as we go on.

This is a bit left-field and I've no idea if it will help. My SIL gave us a CD of 'relaxation for kids' which is supposed to be for 3 and up, and we haven't tried it but I had a listen and it sounds really good, just like a nice voice telling a very soothing story. Maybe something like that would help? You could say 'listen to this, I will come in and tuck you in and give you a kiss when it is finished.' Mostly likely, he will already be asleep. This is the one she gave S: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Magical-Meditations-Superheroes-Marneta-Viegas/dp/1905076010/ref=sr_1_17?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1284924565&sr=8-17 but obviously there are others to choose from.

I know you know this and it is boring, but if you're going to do the silent return to bed thing, a la Supernanny, you really need to be consistent with it. Don't do silent return 20 times and then resort to cuddling and staying with him. Don't do it for 3 nights and cave on the 4th night.

[deb]

Can you and he go shopping together, NO BABY along, for a special lovey or nightlight or bedding for his bed? Sounds like he's really looking for some more parental interaction, and if you can get it in during the day, and in the process directly address his own fears about bedtime/nighttime, that might be helpful. Might take a few days or even weeks for his "Mommy cup" to be full, especially with a baby in the mix, but it CAN be done - I'm living proof!

Agree w/Anna about the threats. Not only will they add to the anxiety, but he isn't likely to have the impulse control to override the threats, especially something as far away (and therefore to his young mind borderline-nonexistent) as Christmas presents.

And DO speak with him during the daytime about your expectations for bedtime, at a time when it's out of the moment. You might phrase it "I have a problem and I would love to have your help with it (kids LOVE that you ask for THEIR help sometimes!): at bedtime you have a hard time falling asleep and I want to help you get the rest your body needs. What can we do to help?" You may be surprised at his insights. You're not asking him what's wrong, which is good as he might not be able to verbalize it yet, but you ARE giving him a chance to participate in the process.

[spodnic]

Thanks guys. Deb I did that asking thing, he said "get more lights" !!! I have just got one of those things that is a nightlight but can be lifted up as a torch (Disney type thing) so I might try that first.

Anna, the CDs look great but how do I avoid them becoming a prop? I would like to use something like this as it would let me get the baby down earlier when she does need it, which is most times!

 

[deb]

IMO there's nothing wrong with using a CD as a "sleep cue." We have CD's of quiet music that the girls help pick out and DH burns them on the computer for them, and we can save the playlists on the iPod for travel as well. Very portable, easy enough to make a spare copy nowadays in case you're traveling - my parents keep a copy at their house for the girls too.

[anna*]

I agree with Deb. It would be no more a prop than any other part of the going to sleep routine. You will probably find that after a couple of weeks he requests either 'just quiet', or some sort music or something else. I'd say it's worth a try.

[spodnic]

Hi, just an update, DH has been trying a gradual withdrawal in the first few minutes, then standing by the door, then saying "back in 5 mins", then he's stayed in bed and fallen asleep fine. First night was a resounding success, so he got a reward, next night not as smooth but ok. I have trouble not sticking my oar into whatever's going on, but I've held back and this seems to have helped. We'll see how the next week or so goes.

Thanks for all your help and suggestions so far, it's been great to have this support.