Conditioned my baby? success at WI/WO but it feels wrong...

[JacobM]

hi - my 20 month little boy has been a vocal little thing since day one - and not a very good sleeper - ie. we were never ones to leave him, often picking him up when he started crying etc...did PU/PD a lot when little and that worked, then did WI/WO later on - and that worked - and then recently, maybe for a few months, we have got into the habit of picking him up when he started shouting /crying in the night or early morning and so we got a few more night wakings and early mornings then we wanted I guess...

anyway, when he started to refuse going into his cot in the day (long story - got very used to buggy/ very unsettled routine with nursery and my ad hoc work hours) ) we decided to instill a firmer routine and started doing WI/WO on the two day naps that I have at home with him ...and, after 2 weeks of LOTS of screaming etc and long, long WI/WO sessions...it worked! he went down yesterday in 5 mins and slept for 2 hours...

HOWEVER....i've noticed a major change in his behaviour - since we started doing WI/WO, he doesn't cry when he wakes up - so for example, at 7.30am i went in to check on him, and he was just sitting up, in the pitch black, hugging his teddy and staring into space...this has happened a few times -and even in the middle of the night when he's woken up recently - when I go in and ask him to lie down, he just sits down, leans against the cot, cuddles his teddy and stares into space - I find it really weird - is it right? Have I conditioned him to believe I won't cuddle him? what's he thinking when he's just sitting there - is he just waiting for me to go and get him? He even has toys in there with him which he doesn't even play with - any thoughts anyone?

xxx

[*Jo*]

hmm thats interesting. do you give lots of attention and cuddles when hes awake? when you are at work who looks after him and how do they put him to sleep?

We have used Wi/Wo many many times when the need arises and have never come across this kind of behaviour. What is your LO's personality? is it touchy, spirited etc?

Have you tried explaining to him when its not nap time what is going on when you do Wi/Wo?
Could he be sleeping but sitting up?

[babybarr]

Maybe you could get him a gro clock too.  My DS will sit in the dark for hours by himself he always wakes happy from his naps and is quite content to play until I get him.  He gets LOTS of cuddles and attention during the day but he knows when it's night time. When he *needs* me he calls - he knows I will come.  Does your DS call in the night if he's upset by something?

[JacobM]

well, he used to shout/cry whenever he woke up - that has now stopped - so, I don't know!
I presume he would call out if he needed me - but maybe he thinks I won't pick him up, so i won't bother. He's really happy in the day when he's with me - and he gets lots of cuddles. with the childminder, she says she leaves him to cry for a minute and he always settles and then sleeps for two hours in the day...should I be worried? what would a gro-clock do?
thanks, x

[babybarr]

A gro clock would help him know when it's night and morning by either being on stars or a sun (there is a thread at the top of the toddler sleep board - maybe worth a look)

If he *needs* you I'm sure he would call - obviously you go to him in the day if he cries or whatever.  Maybe try not to worry at this stage and see what happens over the next few weeks - or if you what to reassure him do so with words.

[deb]

Some of this may be developmental as well. It's possible that he would have gone to this stage without the WI/WO, in other words, so nothing to do with sleep training.

But agree w/PP, when he's awake and you are with him, do make sure to give him some extra cuddle time. It's good for you both, and it'll help put your mind at ease, plus those daytime cuddles are just so happy-making.

[JacobM]

so, is it that he thinks it's the middle of the night when he wakes up, so just sits there until he thinks he's going to fall asleep again? or until I come and get him - i'm so worried! i find it really weird, considering he would cry/shout at EVERY wake up in the morning..(and at night)
x

[Peek-a-boo]

If his day time behavior hasn't changed, I think I would not worry.  Here's why:  everyone takes a while to fall asleep (it's a 20 minute process) and everyone cycles through times of light sleep during the night.  When we cycle into light sleep if everything is as it was when we fell asleep, we go right back to sleep and don't even realize we were awake. If something has changed (ie DH stole all the covers) we fix it and then go back to sleep and may remember the slight waking.   

Since we tend to help babies go to sleep (rocking, feeding, cuddling, etc), when they cycle into light sleep they tend to wake up fully because something has changed since they fell asleep and they want it "fixed" before returning to sleep.  It sounds like this is the first time that you've fully removed yourself from the falling asleep process.  So, he's now learning to go through that 20 minute process of falling asleep without you (part of that is zoning out/looking glazed over) and when he transitions into light sleep, he doesn't need you like he used to he because he's figured out how to do it independently, so he doesn't call out to you, he just gets zoned out like he did when he fell asleep in the first place.  His sleep behavior is become more adult-like because it's becoming more independent. 

As far as morning, I'm not one for jumping out of bed the second I wake up.  If I have 20-30 or 60 minutes to lie there and doze, mull over my coming day, I'm happy to take it.  Now that he's more comfortable in his crib alone (because by going and coming back when he need you, you've taught him it's a safe place and that you'll return reliably if he needs you), he may just be waking a bit more gradually--rather than a startled "Hey, where's mom?! cry--she was here when I fell asleep, where did she go??"  which is what you may have been getting before. 

[JacobM]

thanks for the excellent explanation - I must admit, he has been really good at going down for bed time in the evening for a few months now - independently, without me (it took a long time, but we got there - now i just kiss him good night and he rolls over and cuddles his teddy- and I walk out!!!)...however, I think that is because he is so tired at that time that he really needs to lie down - I guess when he wakes up in the night - that's when he's not used to me not being there -and he's had some sleep so he's a bit refreshed... I do feel better now as he is definitely 'in a zone' when he's sitting there - (which is what has been freaking me out) so I guess he is just getting ready to go back to sleep...And don't get me wrong - the extra sleep in the morning is bliss! I just wonder how long I can leave him there just sitting, waiting for me! I'll experiment at the weekend - as soon as I hear him shouting I'll be wanting him to be 'zombified' again!
Thanks again.
x

[twogirlsmommy]

My dd is 15 months and there are times when I go in from nap or in the morning and she is just standing in the crib or sitting with her blanket and lovey.  She is not upset and is always super happy to see me.  I do get nervous because unless she is teething or ill she rarely calls out for me anymore.  Most of the time she wakes up talking to herself or singing but there is always this rare occurrence where I go in and she is just standing in her crib (like yesterday she had lovey and blanket and was just standing in the crib)