2,7 yrs old and suddenly EWs - 12/12 hrs day isn't working, no nap

[olivetshka]

Ladies, I might need your advice again.
I was posting here before, we had some terrible time with switching 2-1 and after that was great.
Amelia, who is an independent sleeper since she was 4 mo old, used to have one nap and then, in the evening, went to bed with no problems. Sleeping thru the night and waking up at 7.30 - 8 am...
Then it was time for fussing before nap, for many ups and downs.
Finally she had stopped napping in August, when she was 2,5 y old.
And she was doing great.
Although I was very strresed out about OT Monster, etc...
She had her "rest time" upstairs in the crib, while she could play and read some books...
And our routine was 13 hrs at night and 11 hrs in the day.
It was perfect, I could say - she was up at 8 am in the morning, and was asleep before 7 pm. No NWs and EWs...

But then she started to wake up earlier and earlier - and I was expecting that
First it was 7 am, after few days 6.50 am, then 7 again, and after few days 6.30 am... The day before yesterday and yesterday it was 6.30 am and today she was up at 6.10 am.
Right now I'm awaiting for 5.50...
And soon we'll have to set our clocks one hr back, so... 

Right now I don't exactly know what to do. I know I should shorten her evening and put her into bed earlier, but 5 pm is way too early for us (we have another girl, who is 7 yrs old and has some activities after school).
Please, maybe you could see something I don't?...

Here's our routine:

6.30 am up
6.30 in bed and asleep around 6.45 pm
(even though when she wakes at 7 am, she's in bed at 6.30 pm - just to preserve her from OT)

I try very hard to keep her at least in 12/12 hrs routine, but sometimes I just can't (the older one).
But pretty much time we have almost the same schedule.
Today she was up at 6.10 am - am I supposed to put her into bed at 6 pm??...

I have no idea how to break the cycle and make her sleep untill 7 am (it's my dream).
She won't nap anymore, it's out of question.
What else?...

Dear Ladies, please - maybe you have some ideas?
Will appreciate it.

Anna

[*Becky*]

bumping up x

[LucySol]

it really looks to me that she is getting OT.i know you say napping is out of the question but i think if she wont do that then you will have to bring bedtime earlier to compensate.Whats the earliest you can have in bed for?
Could you AP a nap out of her? even every other day? A car ride or in the buggy etc?

[olivetshka]

it really looks to me that she is getting OT.i know you say napping is out of the question but i think if she wont do that then you will have to bring bedtime earlier to compensate.Whats the earliest you can have in bed for?
Could you AP a nap out of her? even every other day? A car ride or in the buggy etc?

Lucy, thanks for reply.
I could give her 6 pm the earliest bedtime, I think...
About nap thing - I could probably make her fall asleep in her crib just standing there and striking her hair... But I did it few times when we were gone for vacations and when we're back home, she was making scenes on bedtime - didn't want to settle by herself, as usual. She just wanted me to be there and strike her hair again.
So I just went cold turkey and cut her that nap out. She was doing great for quite some time (13/11 hrs day), but suddenly she started to have problems with EWs...
I'm a bit afraid about that 6 pm bedtime... I hope she won't wake up in the middle of the night, ex. at 4 or 5 am... Because when she does, she calls me to come and get her, cause she's totally happy and ready to start the day (that's her own words)
And then we have our all house wide awake - when my older daughter needs her sleep before going to school...
I'm very sorry for my english by the way

[LucySol]

So I just went cold turkey and cut her that nap out. She was doing great for quite some time (13/11 hrs day), but suddenly she started to have problems with EWs...

i think this is what the problem is.She was doing fine for a while but now OT has set in.

i completely understand about the early bedtime,this is always my worry.i even have the older school child so i worry bout that too!
i think some how you are going to need to find a way for her to nap even every other day if not every day,if you dont want to do the early bedtime..i really dont think she is ready to drop her nap and have a normal bedtime.

your English is gr8!

[clazzat]

Does she seem to be OT?  Has she generally been high sleep needs or low sleep needs?  My personal view would be that you need to set her bedtime so that she goes to bed at the same time every night, regardless of what time she wakes up in the morning, and then that will set her body clock so that she is a bit more predictable.  The reason I think this might work is that the earlier bedtime is not resulting in longer nights - so it doesn't feel like persistent OT, iyswim?  It's possible that she might need the odd nap from time to time to catch her up if she carries on waking early, but I think if she was managing okay without her nap for a while then it is a bit more likely that she has just moved on to needing a little less sleep again.  As they get older, rest time in the middle of the day can be as good as a nap.

Sorry, Lucy - totally different advice!   The one thing I would say is that you know her best - if *you* think she is OT or she has always been on the higher end of sleep needs, then you will be right.  I still think that working towards a set bedtime will help you, though - it does make things a lot easier.

[olivetshka]

Ladies thanks soooo much for your replies.

Lucy - few months ago, when she was still napping, I almost had to fight with her, cause she didn't want to sleep. That's why I was doing some AP by striking her hair. That led me to some troubles with bedtime, when she didn't want to fall asleep on her own.
After we cut that nap out, she was totally different child - I probably could say she was doing much better at night, quickly asleep, slept thru and waking at 8 am. Perfect.
That's why I made this decision - didn't want to fight with her and just do the earlier bedtime.
She won't nap in a car or in a stroller - she was always napping in her crib, since she was 4 months old Of course, when we were in a long trip, she took a nap in a car, but it wasn't decent, long time rest, just a quick 30-45 mins cat nap.

Clazzat - She seems to be tired in the afternoon, around 4-5 pm. But not every day and not always. When we're at home for the bigger part of the day, she seems bored, of course and when we change the scene, like go for a ride or for a walk, she's fine.
I could say she was on low sleep needs from infancy. We had terrible time during 2-1 transition, when she could sleep as long as 20-30 mins for the whole day. I was so stressed out and couldn't help her to change it (lenghten, shorten A time, waking her up after 20 min of her nap, etc).
Finally, one day, she just took long 1,5 hrs nap and it was it - nothing has changed for a long time. She was very predictable that days.
Right now I do something like this - when she's up at 6.30 am for example, I do everything to lay her down no later than 6.30 pm, when wakes up at 6.10 - bedtime at 6.10 pm. 12/12 hrs day.
But someday she could sleep a bit longer, and the other day she's up at 6 or even earlier.
So maybe you're right about the same bedtime every night...
I will try it, definitely.
Thanks so much for your help, guys!

[olivetshka]

Ladies, I did as one of you suggested and made Amelia the same bedtime hour every day.
So, since then she's asleep around 6.45 pm and up somewhere between 7-7.25 am the next day.
Pretty often her wake up time was 7.20 am during that 1,5 weeks, maybe twice she was up at 7 or 7.10 am.
So what do you think?
Her bedtime is even a bit later than usual, and she seems to be doing much better...

Right now I worry about that savings daylight...
Do you have any suggestion what to do to keep her bedtime as usual?
I've got one book - that's "The no-cry sleep solution for toddlers and preschoolers" by E. Pantley, and her suggestion about that problem is to shorten bedtime every 15 mins every day.
Something like this (for example):

Wed  bedtime at 7.30 pm
Thu   bedtime 7.15
Fri   bedtime 7.00
Sat   bedtime 6.45
Sun   bedtime 6.30 (old time)/7.30 new time

Is it right?  I still don't actually get it 
Do you have any own ideas for daylight saving time?
Thanks a lot,
Anna

[clazzat]

Sounds like things are falling into place a bit - that's good to hear.  Just in time for daylight savings...

I confess that we have never tried to prepare for clock changes in advance, we just deal with the consequences.  So this weekend, we will cope with whatever time they wake up and then run the day at the "new" time - so bedtime will basically be an hour earlier.  In the past I have generally found that they adjust in 2-3 days, sometimes less, and it feels much less stressful than messing around with moving things gradually.