Need help with 8 month old **Need responses! Please!**

[sensfan]

DD is 8 months old, and we've got a pretty good routine going during the day. Our nights, however, have never really gotten back to where they were before Christmas when she got sick and was dropping the CN. She still wakes for 1 feed each night. At the beginning of Dec., she wasn't waking for this until close to 6 am, and then she would go right back to sleep. She even STTN a few times. Then she got sick and it all blew up. We were at least back to wake-ups around 4:30, but the last 3 nights have been absolute hell. She wakes up between 3:00 and 3:30, and when she wakes earlier like this I always try to settle before feeding. These last 3 nights she will not settle at all, not sounding in pain or anything so I don't think it's teething. But when I go in, I'll get her almost out, I'll wait like 10 min. with my hand lightly on her, gradually remove it, and then as soon as I think of leaving she wakes back up. So she ends up being up for at least an hour, and then I just feed her since it's gotten to that usual time. Last night not even that worked! I tried giving her the soother, which I don't usually do, and she just started playing with it and babbling. When I tried feeding her, she went for half the time she usually does and then just started pulling off so she could stare at DH. It was a good 2 hours before she finally fell asleep. I just can't figure out why she's doing this, and I'm dreading tonight. Here's our routine the last few days:

7:45 wake and BF
8:45 solids
10:45 sleep, about 1.5 hours
12:15 wake and BF
1:15 solids
3:15 sleep, about 1.5 hours
4:45 wake and BF
5:45 solids
7:15 BF, EBM top-up
7:45 bed
10:15 DF

She goes down by herself at naps no problem. I have had to help her settle at bedtime the last 2 nights, and she's out within 15 minutes. Doesn't get a soother. We're weaning from the swaddle, so she has one arm out, but her first long night was still fully swaddled, so I don't think that's it. Only thing left I can think of is maybe the DF? Which I've been nervous to tackle since she still feeds at night, but I was thinking of weaning once we're done with the swaddle. If anyone has any ideas for me, I'd really appreciate the help!

[sensfan]

Last night just as bad. Had to settle her at bedtime, and then she was up at 1:30. I was so desperate for some sleep that I settled her with the soother, which at least worked this time, but then she was up again at 3:00. Tried for 45 min. to settle, she's not really crying, but not settling either IYKWIM, and then I finally just gave up and fed her at 3:50. I'm really at a loss here. Could it be teething even if she's not sounding like she's in pain? Is this all because of the DF? Really need some help please!

[newbiemommy]

DD is 8.5 months and our EASY is almost identical to yours!  Also having similar problems at night - last night DD was up for 2 hours from 1am - 3am.  Not crying, just mildly fussing in crib.  finally went in and held her in the rocking chair at 2:45 and when she started looking sleepy I put her back in the crib, she smiled at me, turned her head to the side and went back to sleep!

I'm thinking it's time to increase A times.  Both of us have our DDs at 3 hours and at 8mos they could be ready for more.  Maybe try extending A time bit by bit and see if that helps with the NW?  Another possibility is Separation Anxiety - supposed to start around 8mos.  Definitely think there's some of that with my DD as she calms down as soon as we enter the room.

Good Luck! HTH! Keep me posted, I'd love to keep comparing notes.

[sensfan]

Another crappy night last night, that's 5 in a row now. And once again, feeding didn't do the trick. Today I decided I'm going to try your suggestion of slightly longer A times and see if that at least helps her settle at bedtime again. Kept her up an extra 10 min. for nap #1, and she's still out after 1hour and 10. I also think with this longer A time, I won't let her sleep any longer than 1.5 hours. Are you trying this today too?

I'm also realizing that since she was waking to feed once a night, she's really NEVER settled at night by herself. She was never waking early on a consistent basis like this, so whenever she woke I was just, "Oh well, time to feed her" and would go get her. Looks like I may have multiple problems to tackle...

[sensfan]

So I tried a longer A time, 3 hours and 10 min. First night I tried this she slept until almost 5 am, which was kind of back to normal so it gave me some hope. We also moved the DF up 15 min to try tackling that too. Tried it again last night, and she woke up at 8:50, which she hasn't done in ages! Then back to 3 am wake up, where she almost settles, but not quite, unless I try to leave. I end up in there for over an hour before I decide to feed her since she'd likely want that soon anyways. I need help! I need a plan! I'm trying the longer A times again today, but now with that super early wake-up I'm not sure if that's making her OT. She's still going down fine for naps, but crying at bedtime. Not sure if there's some SA there too? Would that pop up at night but not during the day?

[hatshetsut]

My LO is doing the EXACT same thing. It is driving me nuts! We have crawling added in their too but I can't figure it out. We have longer A times than you do, she does 3 hrs first thing, then 3 hrs and 15 or 20 min for the 2nd A time. She goes down great but wakes about 12 or 1 am. If you figure out do share, I'm having trouble getting ideas on this board too :-/

[Tweakster]

Hi there, Tracy did feel that the DF would interfere with night sleep around this age so it can't hurt to try leaving the DF right?  Just follow her for a few days, see when she would naturally wake.  Do you think the paci and/or swaddle need to go completely?  It might help to rule them out too.  LO at this age are raring to get their motor skills on and they practice at night - it's not ideal for us but it is what their bodies are compelling them to do.  If she gets some free roaming around her crib at night it might get it out of her system.  And loads of activity and practice in the daytime.

If she's only ever settled with a feed then yes, you would need to commit to a sleep training plan and follow through on it.  She has no idea how to get herself back to sleep when she wakes.

And finally, yes teeth can and do cause all sorts of chaos at this age...whether you see them or not.  So it doesn't hurt to medicate before bed and once in the night to see if that helps get some solid sleep.

[sensfan]

Hello all, and thanks for the responses! She didn't wake in the early evening last night, so I'll continue with the longer A times. Swaddle is going tomorrow, we'll see how that goes. She did bust out of it the last 2 nights completely. We don't actually use the paci for sleep, I just tried it once the other night in desperation. That's what's so frustrating, during the day her independent sleep is great! So why doesn't it translate?

Wendy, were you thinking stopping the DF cold turkey? I was going to slowly back off like I did with DS...it seemed to help with any habitual wakings at DF time.

The other thing is she still cries every time I leave the room at bedtime, which she doesn't do for naps at all. Could this still be SA? When we try to settle at the NW, if DH tries to take a turn that's when it usually turns from whining to screaming. There's no picking up, no rocking, no paci (for the most part)...how do we help her when the prop seems to be my presence? Do we just have to suck it up and let her cry with DH? The night feed is a whole other thing obviously, I think once the DF is gone I'm going to look at ditching that too. I don't know, so many people have told me that with BF, needing one feed a night is totally normal, which was why I continued with it, and she was sleeping so well! But if it's messing with everything else, I just don't know.

[mpablo]

Hi there, I do think that it is about the A time. I also have an eight month old and from what I have read, they should be awake for about 10 hours during the day. My EASY is a bit different than yours as he stays awake for 2.5 hours before the morning nap, 3 hours before the afternoon nap and 5 hours before going to bed.

My baby is having a different problem and that is that he is having a hard time transitioning from deeper to lighter sleep. During naps, I have to give him a paci after half an hour so that he continues sleeping and it is now happening at night too... I'm waking up a couple of times to give him a paci (and he goes right back to sleep). If anyone has ideas to train her without paci, please let me know!

[Tweakster]

I was suggesting just stopping, leaving it out and seeing what she does.  It's just an experiment.  She may surprise you :-)

If you are scared you can reduce the amount and see if you can wean it that way.

[newbiemommy]

Huge progress over here, but still adjusting.  And yes, it was definitely the A times for us.  We needed to be keeping her up longer during the day.  She was ready for more than 3 hours each A.

So, first A was 3hr20, second was 3hr20, and third was 3hr10.  I actually think she probably needed more A time before bed, because we heard her wake up after only 40 minutes, but then all was quiet again immediately.

We definitely had to battle with OT during the transition to longer A times, because she was up for hours in the middle of the night she was making it up with weird naps and some early bedtimes, but we're getting there!  I say keep pushing out those A's!  Good luck!

[sensfan]

That sounds promising. We've had some good nights and some more bad. It's really all over the place. In the last 5 nights, she STTN twice, was up for 1.5 hours twice, and once woke just to feed and went right back to sleep.

Naps have been up and down too. Never shorter than an hour, but I've wondered about A times again too. We've got both arms out of the swaddle now. I'm still having to help her settle at bedtime, but it's literally just walking in, telling her it's time to sleep, and putting a hand on her and she'll be out within 5 minutes. With A times like that, how long are her naps? And when is she up/going to bed each day?

[newbiemommy]

Right now, every day is a little different.  Because we're still transitioning, some days get a little messed up.  For example, two nights ago it was a really rough night.  She got very little sleep and then she ended up being up for the day at 6:30am (that's very early for her - before this whole mess started the day began anywhere from 7:30-8).  So she went down for a nap after only 2hr40 and slept for 2 hours!  Then I kept her up for 3.5 and her afternoon nap was 1.5 hours.  She was up from 5-8 and then bed, then we had a pretty good night (no extended night wakings, that is).

Today she woke up at 8am because I let her sleep in (because I was sleeping in!) so her first nap was at 11:30-1pm.  2nd nap was a catnap from 4:30-5 (I woke her up to protect the 8pm bedtime).

So what I think I should be aiming for is this:
Up for day at 7am
A 3.5 hours
S 10:30 - noon (1.5 hours)

A noon - 3:30
S 3:30-5 (1.5 hours)

A 5pm
S 8/8:30pm bedtime

I'm a little scared about pushing bedtime back so late.  Her bedtime used to always be between 6:30 and 7:30 but we went to San Diego (we're in chicago) a couple weeks ago and ever since then things have been all messed up.  I think all the problems have been a combo of the travel / messed up time zones and her needing to be awake longer.

Yeah, things are all over the place for us too but we're definitely seeing improvement on the nights when we've pushed out A times during the day.

Let me know how tonight goes.  DD just went down here.