What would Tracy have said?

[conradsbw]

Hi everybody 

Me and my friend are two mums in Sweden following BW for our little ones that are now almost 2 years old. We have both had early wakings since a long time, and the way we deal with it has raised many discussions. My LO has always had good nights, so he's usually well rested after 10,5-11 ours sleep. But we still practice staying in bed till the alarm goes. Me or my husband go in to stay in the bed next to our LO until then. That works fine.

My friends LO is more of a grumpy/touchy baby and they have had more difficulties than us, but it turned much better when they decided to stay more with him and practice gradual withdrawal instead of WI/WO. My friend is getting more and more desperate though about the early morning, since she feels that the 10 hours he usually sleeps (with 1,5-2 hours day sleep) is not enough for him. Since WI/WO or staying in the room doesn't result in him going to sleep again they started just not going there, or just say the key words from their room. My friend is unhappy with the situation, her LO cries a lot, but she feels like she "has to" give it some time.

I've been reading in my book and in some threads here at the forum. I can't get the general advise clear. That is of course natural, everybody should get advice according to their situation. But sometimes I see advises like locking the door for toddlers so they canīt get out of the room in the morning. And this makes me wonder. Is that what Tracy would say? I always had the impression that she was against leaving upset babies alone with their feelings. Or have I got it wrong 

What are your thoughts on this matter?

[sianie]

Hi there!

Having read Tracy's books, I've never come across any mention  of locking toddlers bedroom doors etc. that wouldn't fit in with Tracy's philosophy of listening to & respecting your child.

Tracy (& this site) do not recommend CIO (cry it out) or any similar methods as this can really break the bond of trust between parent & child.

I'm more than happy to try & help you & your friend with the issues you mentioned. Maybe you can post your routine & I'll take a look? 

[jesie]

Sorry i'm not much help but I am 100% against locking the door. For many reasons but mainly: A couple of years ago near me there was a fire. The children were locked in their bedrooms... needless to say the poor children could not get out if their rooms

What time do the children wake?

[conradsbw]

Hi there!

Having read Tracy's books, I've never come across any mention  of locking toddlers bedroom doors etc. that wouldn't fit in with Tracy's philosophy of listening to & respecting your child.

Tracy (& this site) do not recommend CIO (cry it out) or any similar methods as this can really break the bond of trust between parent & child.

I'm more than happy to try & help you & your friend with the issues you mentioned. Maybe you can post your routine & I'll take a look? 

Thank you for your quick response 

This is exactly my impression of Tracy, and actually of the forum too. I just jumped  in to threads where locking door was mentioned, and I was a bit chocked. But they were not posted from BW moderators. My friend is not locking the door, but decided to do "as little as possible" and remain outside their LO:s room. Someone recommended her to do "nothing" until the alarm goes, and said that after a couple of weeks her LO would be sleeping in the morning knowing that nothing happens until alarm-time. I feel like I want to advise her NOT to do it, certainly since her baby is crying (even though she says he sound more angry) and she feels bad about it. I think that whenever it feels bad, it usually is bad...

The point is that I canīt seem to give her any advise that she hasn't already tried. Our routines are quite similar, even though we let our LO take longer day naps, about 2 hrs. Now that I talked to my friend she said they restricted their LO:s day naps to 1 hour (1-2pm), and that the his night sleep tends to be 7.30 pm-6 or 6.30 am. The alarm is set to 6.30 so it's more or less 15-30 minutes in the morning that they are struggling with. I think that they are hoping to extend the morning when (or if) he gets used to the alarm.

The problem is that their LO is generally grumpy, and they seem to think that everything has to do with lack of sleep. I do recognise the feeling that the days are better after a longer nights sleep, but it's not ALL about sleep. I'ts just very hard to criticize other peoples ways to do with their babies I know that my friend wants the very best for her LO. But they are also very tired of his temper. 

So, if any ideas pop up in your head, I'm more than happy to hear more 

[conradsbw]

Sorry i'm not much help but I am 100% against locking the door. For many reasons but mainly: A couple of years ago near me there was a fire. The children were locked in their bedrooms... needless to say the poor children could not get out if their rooms

What time do the children wake?

That's so horrible to think about I can't even imagine how to get on living after something like that.

Actually both our LO:s are awake at about the same time, around 6 am. So it's definitely not any horrifyingly early hour to step up. My friends issue is not so much about that, but more about how to teach her LO to sleep more totally. And she has people around her following a swedish "baby-sleep-guru" with a tendency to CIO in the method. So when their children sleep like angels, and her LO doesn't, she starts doubting.

[sianie]

Has your friend read any of the BW books? These will really help to explain what Tracy's work is all about.

Parenting is a very personal thing & there are hundreds of 'parenting' books out there, I think it's about choosing which one you feel the most comfortable with for you & your LO.

Your friend might be interested to read the below link...

http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=63839.0

In terms of your friends LO, from what you've written her LO has a 1hr nap & does roughly 11hrs at night, is that right? Anything less than 10.5hrs is classed as an EW. Waking at 6/6.30am is a pretty good night (even though it might feel too early for Mum & Dad!)

It's also difficult to know if your friends baby is grumpy as she's tired or because that her temperament? Maybe this will help...

http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=52284.0

Also capping her nap at an hour may be making her LO OT (overtired), my DD was still having at least a 1.5hr nap up until the age of 2.

[We Three]

Jumping in to say that I don't understand why she is capping the afternoon nap?    Is it because she wants an early bedtime? Then she is upset at an early wake?    Hmmm.  At that age my dd was easily having a 2 hour nap...about 1:00 til 3:00, to bed at 8:30ish.

There is a monitor that has a "talk-back" feature, where you can speak to your child thru the monitor without going in...but honestly I feel like she may be trying very hard to force-fit him in to a routine that isn't jiving with him, kwim?   Some things are trade-offs...yk? Like a longer nap might mean a later bedtime, but if everyone is happier and not grumpy, then why fight it?  Perhaps I am reading it wrong...but he may just be OT from not being able to have the longer nap that  he might need, hence the EW. 

[jesie]

I agree with pp's about naps, maybe now being OT and also 6am onwards is a good time to get up.

I'm a tad grumpy in the mornings and I do groan if I get woken up and look at the clock and think Grrrr its 6.15 but anything after 6 and i'm happy.

Maybe if your friend went to bed half hour earlier then she'd be ok?

[conradsbw]

Has your friend read any of the BW books? These will really help to explain what Tracy's work is all about.

Parenting is a very personal thing & there are hundreds of 'parenting' books out there, I think it's about choosing which one you feel the most comfortable with for you & your LO.

Your friend might be interested to read the below link...

http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=63839.0

In terms of your friends LO, from what you've written her LO has a 1hr nap & does roughly 11hrs at night, is that right? Anything less than 10.5hrs is classed as an EW. Waking at 6/6.30am is a pretty good night (even though it might feel too early for Mum & Dad!)

It's also difficult to know if your friends baby is grumpy as she's tired or because that her temperament? Maybe this will help...

http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=52284.0

Also capping her nap at an hour may be making her LO OT (overtired), my DD was still having at least a 1.5hr nap up until the age of 2.

O, I think she has been reading BW a lot! But maybe focusing much on the sleep part. Maybe it's time to start focusing a bit more on the Taming toddlers part, F.I.T, B.R.A.T and subjective/objective parenting. I'll recommend she takes a look at the quiz, and the CIO research.

I think that it would be very reassuring for my friend to hear, from someone with experience of babies sleep, that 10.5 hours is a GOOD night. It's very easy to detect grumpiness as lack of sleep, when your baby is having less than average.

Thank you 

[conradsbw]

Most understandable all of you are questioning the cutting down of his day nap. As far as I understand her LO has 9,5-10 hrs sleep with 1,5-2 hrs nap and 10,5-11 hrs night sleep with 1 hrs nap. So, since there was no improvement in night sleep with longer naps she thought what the heck...

Considering this fact, doesn't that make it more possible that his total need of sleeping time in fact is just 11,5-12 hrs totally? 

[sianie]

Most 2 yr olds average 11hrs sleep at night although some LO's are higher or lower sleep needs than others. He could well be on the lower end of sleep needs.

Is he teething? 2nd year molars in particular can create havoc with sleep.

As pp has said sometimes it's a trade off between having longer naps & shorter nights or vice versa if your friend has already tried letting him sleep longer during the day. Sometimes you just have to accept that that's the way they are & it's then better to work with it rather than against it iyswim?