Wish me luck!!! First time to try W2S

[Mia's Mommy]

Like many, we're plagued by the dreaded 45 min naps. I've tried ssh/pat, just recently pu/pd (Mia is 14 wks adjusted age), and even rocking and no luck.

I just snuck in Mia's room and gently patted her to try out W2S for the first time... It took a couple of tries but she fluttered her eyes a little and made the tiniest of whimpers and I immediately ducked out of sight. After a few mins of quietness, I peaked in and Mia's eyes are closed. Keep your fingers crossed that it worked!!!

 

[~Karen~]

Good luck!  Let us know how you get on 

[Mia's Mommy]

I think it worked!!!  I put Mia down at 9:20, snuck in at 9:50 to W2S, and now it's 11 and she's still asleep!!! I'll have to wake her myself so that she stays on her 3.5 EASY.  I don't want to jinx it since it was the first time I tried it, but I am sooo happy that she napped longer finally.  I'm going to continue to W2S all day today and provide an update later.  Mia also has been habitually waking at 3-430 in the middle of the nite so I'm thinking of setting my alarm at 2 to try W2S.

[~Karen~]

Great news!  Hope it continues to go well for you!

[TaniaT]

Isn't it great!!!  I too recently began using W2S with my 16 week old and was pleasantly surprised to see how well it worked (I admittedly didn't think it would).  Today, he had one nap which was 1 1/2hr and another which was 1 3/4hr without the use of W2S.  It worked so well... hope you have similiar results. 

[yxchan]

Hi, do you think w2s would work for my DD who has never ever slept past 40 min on her own, even in a swing? It got so bad that I gave up and APOP. Now we rock her to sleep, put her in swing, rock back to sleep after she cries at the 40 min mark, carry or put back in swing depending on whether we can put her down. I know this is total AP, but i just want her to get the rest she needs as a baby.

I got pretty excited after seeing this, may give it a try tomorrow. It didn't work for me a month ago when DD was still sleeping in the cot, but maybe it might work when she's in the swing? Just a thought.

[TaniaT]

yxchan - Not sure about the swing... I think it may be difficult to do w2S while in a swing.

Have you tried placing her in her crib once she gets sleepy in her swing (before she actually falls completely asleep) or shh/pat in her crib to get her to sleep initially?  Then once asleep, then try w2s.

[TaniaT]

yxchan - just another thought...  It is entirely possible that your lo has always taken 40min naps b/c she is unable to self-soothe... so, at the end of the sleep cycle she cannot soothe herself back into another cycle.  You may want to try again to work on her being able to fall asleep in her crib (without being rocked or in the swing).  It could also be due to her EASY routine and whether she is OT or UT.  How old is your DD and what does your EASY look like?

For my DS, I would rock him until calm and do shh/pat over my shoulder, then lay him down in his crib (eyes closed but still awake) and continue shh/pat until he fell asleep.  Over time, I gradually reduced the amount of time he was rocked, then shh/patted, etc until I could finally just put him in his crib and he would fall asleep indendently.  Once he could do that I implemented w2s to extend naps.

[yxchan]

Yup, you are right. DD doesn't know how to sleep on her own. We tried pat/shh when she was one month old but she would cry the min we put her in the crib. It didn't help that i did not have sufficient milk for the first few weeks and she was always hungry and fussy, refused to let us put her down. We carried and rocked and then it became one big vicious cycle. We even got a swing to óutsource'the rocking out of sheer desperation. We wanted to sleep train her when she's slightly older, probably about 3 to 4 months but then the sudden NW and EW issues since last week threw everything off.

I was thinking of solving the NW and EW issues first (I posted something on the easy board already) before sleep training her. DD is 3 months now. Would it be too young to try pat/shh? She has always been fussy and it breaks my heart whenever she cries. She cries real loudly and her face turns red with all the crying. Oh well... I know I sound like an over-protective mother.

Anyway, here's DD's easy.

Wake and E any time between 5 to 5:30 am for the past week
After this, I try to put her back to sleep by nursing. Doesn't really work and I end up nursing for 1 to 1.5 hr.

E 7:00 (reason for 7 am is because the DS wakes up at 7 am for school and we sleep in the same room but on different beds)
A 7:40 ==> target times
S: 8:20 ==> target times
(I am having problems with the above A and S the past week because DD is so tired by 7:30)

E 10:00
A 10:40
S 11:20

E 1:00
A 1:40
S 2:20

E 4:00
A 4:40
S 5:20

E 6:00
A 6:40
E 7:20 (may be slightly earlier depending on DD's cues)
S 7:40
DD wakes, cries, fusses, sleeps... nurses her back to sleep
Finally real night S about 9:30

Besides, DD woke up at 1, 4 and 5:30 am last night. Could not go back to sleep after waking up at 5:30 am. I nursed her for 1.5 hr (fell asleep myself), thinking she can start her day at 7 am instead but DD was too tired by 7:30 am. I'm starting to have an inkling of the problem actually. DD's night sleep is probably 9:30+ pm till 10 am. Sigh... I feel so exhausted. It seems that things were going uphill for awhile and then everything crashes. DH is also tired from work and I'm the only one fighting the battle from evening till morning.

yingxuan

[TaniaT]

Sounds like you are having a really heard time right now.. HUGS!  I have heard that difficulties during the day can result in NW and EW... so if you can sort out the difficulties during the day you may see improvements at night.

Sounds like you are definately in a OT cycle . 

I noticed your activity times are 1hr 20mins.  I would first try and reduce this A time to 1hr as that is likely all she can handle at this age (and particularly since she is so OT).  So, if she wakes at 7:00 then you may want to start your wind-down at 7:50, and hopefully have her asleep by 8:00.  With luck, she may be easier to put down .  She is not too young to do shh/pat (I started shh/pat at 1mos with DS).  Perhaps try doing it over your shoulder and gradually moving closer to placing her in the crib earlier and earlier over time (as I mentioned previously).  I know this worked for me... perhaps someone else may have some other suggestions for you.

I notice you are also cluster feeding (adding that extra feed at 6:00).  At this age, you no longer need to cluster feed unless she is going through a growth spurt - just an FYI in case you were not aware.  You also mentioned that your DD fusses and you try to nurse her to sleep at prior to 9:30... you need to trust that she is not hungry - especially since you just fed her before putting her to bed (and did a cluster feed) and you do not want to become a prop... and add another element you will need to rid of later.  Trust that your DD can fall asleep using shh/pat... which will also help her learn to self-soothe and eventually help her fall asleep on her own. 

You did not mention a dream feed (df).  Do you do a df?  I would add a dream feed in somewhere between 10-11pm.  Then you will know that if she wakes anytime before 3hrs after the df that she is not hungry and you should put her back to sleep with shh/pat.

I know this sounds like a lot... but with some persistance, I think you will find it will all pay off.

HTH

 

[yxchan]

Hi, sorry for not replying earlier, nights have become monsters for us.

You are right about biting the bullet and starting sleep training now. DD is now waking up multiple times at night, every 2hr to feed to sleep. This has gone out of hand earlier than expected and I need to break the association before it gets too entrenched.

As for the cluster feed, it wasn't intentional. I usually work towards a 7+ bedtime so if we start the day slightly later, I would move the last feed earlier to meet our predetermined bedtime. I've stopped this now since DD started waking up earlier and for some reason, we meet our bedtime target after 3 holy feeds.

I tried DF awhile back it seems to disrupt DD's sleep cycle. Errr... But now I don't need to reintroduce DF since ironically, DD is waking io every 2 hr to feed to sleep so I have no time to slot in a DF.

Oh well, it's really teaching DD to sleep independently for now. Looks like it will solve majority of our problems if I tackle this. Wish me luck! Oh, and thanks for everyone's help to look into our problem.

[~Karen~]

teaching DD to sleep independently for now. Looks like it will solve majority of our problems if I tackle this.

All I did with ds2 from the day he was born was make sure he could sleep independently so I never created any bad habits.  I honestly think it's the reason he's been such an amazing sleeper.  As he could always put himself to sleep, then he could always put himself back to sleep through sleep cycles.  Independent sleep in the best gift you can give them and yourself! 

[Mia's Mommy]

Update to my original post...

Unfortunately, W2S has not worked on every nap for me. I was so thrilled that it worked on the very first try though all remaining naps on that first day, Mia woke right on the 40-45min mark. I'm continuing to W2S, though it appears it only works for one nap for the day, and it's never the same nap. I try not to get discouraged, but I just wish Mia can get more sleep. And there are days when W2S doesn't work at all.

Is that common? Sometimes W2S works and doesn't?

To YXCHAN - My husband and I used to AP before I read BW. Then we implemented the Four S and after a week or so, Mia can fall asleep on her own. It was a very long week, lots of crying (from both Mia and me), and frustration, but it worked for us, so maybe give that a try. The key is to be consistent. Also, I think we were keeping Mia up way too long, OT, so putting her to bed was really stressful. Now, instead of looking at the clock, I really try to pay attention to her cues. 90% of the time, she goes down without a fuss.

Still today, our biggest problem are short naps. Before reading BW, I was not aware of baby's sleep cycles and that it's very common that babies wake up 45-45 mins. Since I didn't know that, I just thought Mia's naps were over, so I'd pick her up and went about our day. After 15-20 mins, I could tell she would get tired and fussy, and didn't understand why since she just got done with a nap. After all those weeks of me getting her out of her crib after short naps, I think it really hindered her ability to self-soothe and continue napping. Now, I'm battling to get her to nap longer.

In addition to W2S, what other methods can I try to help Mia self-soothe? She is a preemie - 20 wks actual, 16 wks adjusted. Too young for PU/PD?