Help please ladies :)

[JackandJulia]

Hello,

Wondering if anyone could please shed some light on my little darlings sudden need to wake up every couple of hours 

Julia will be 7 Months at the end of the Month. We live in a two bedroom apartment and she has a 2 1/2 year old brother. I have taken her to the doctors and she has no ear infection, tummy aches or pains or anything else that could possibly be causing her pain (except for the dreaded teeth but not sure)

Trouble started about 3 weeks ago when I attempted to put Julia into Jacks room to start sleeping their so that we could have our room back... At this stage she was going to bed at 7pm and waking at around 4 for a BF and then sleep till about 6:30.

Very quickly however she picked up on the fact that I am TERRIFIED of her waking up her brother so I ran into her room as soon as she made a peep... (first mistake)
Anyway she started waking up 2 - 3 times and crying out very loudly. Also as soon as I was putting her down for her evening sleep - which is usually the easiest of the day she would wake back up out of her milky dream and start crying till I came and got her. Sooooo out came the cot in our bedroom again...

Since then, and especially the last few nights have been awful. She is sleeping well during the day (due to no sleep at night) but as soon as we start our night time sleep it all goes down hill. last night she was up every our and waking up just screaming?

How do I fix this cycle? A time during the day is about 3 hours...

Thanks!!

[mmom]

((HUGS)) Can you post what your EASY looks like?

Are you ready to move her bad into her own room?  I understand the fear of waking another LO. But it will only be a few days of unsettledness and your older one will adjust.

Also, have you tried medicating at night to see if it is teething?

[JackandJulia]

Thanks!

I would love to move her back to Jacks Bedroom but she is just sooo loud at the moment... he is waking up from her through two shut doors at the moment?

Last night was a bit better but she still cried for an hour when I put her down to bed. She woke up at 11:30 and at 4:30 and I Breast Fed her both times... at the 4:30 feed I didnt think she would go down as she was so awake but she did settle luckily...

At the moment I am trying to get her into 2 sleeps a day but if she wakes at 6am then she needs the three...EASY is:

6am Wake
7am Rice Cereal
7:30 BF
9am Sleep For an hour (usually 45min but depends on how bad the night was)
10am Wake and BF
11am Lunch (Fruit and Veggies and maybe a finger of Toast)
11:30 Sleep
12:15 Wake and BF
2/2:30 Sleep
I have been waking her at 3pm as if she sleeps after that time she is a nightmare to get to sleep at bedtime for some reason?
5pm Solids
6pm - bath BF and bed at about 7pm.
I know there is a big A time in the Afternoon but I have played around with it and she is just shocking when she has sleeps after the 3pm mark...
I have been giving her pain meds everynight at bath time just for in case it could be the teeth...

THanks for your help!!

[mmom]

Have you tried extending naps?  I don't think 3 - 45 minute naps are adequate for your LO. http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=64159.0

Do you DF?  Is that 11:30 wake up normal?  It looks like an OT waking to me.

It almost appears that you need to focus on getting the day sleep in order, to improve the night sleep.  I know it is hard when the younger LO wakes the older LO.  But it may be easiest to do all of your sleep training at the same time.

[JackandJulia]

Hello!
I think you are completly right - it HAS to be OT??!! She woke up from an hour and a half nap yesterday afternoon at 1pm and then only had a 5min power nap at 3:30 in the car - soooo long for her to be awake for! I put her down at 6pm but she woke again at 7pm. I just fed her and she went down till 3am and only back down again at 4:30! Up for the day at 6:30am
It is really hard as Julia is in Daycare - her Daycare Mum is excellent and is trying to help me get into the routine but I think the main thing I am going to have to try and do is break the OT Cycle... How do I do that?

[mmom]

To break OT, you need to shorten A times and try and extend naps.  When all else fails, go for an early bedtime.
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=649.0

[JackandJulia]

ok - so last night was TERRIBLE!! She had a 1 1/2 hour nap in the morning after 3 hours of A time (I extended the nap after 30mins with success! YAY!!) but then when I put her down at 1:10pm she only slept till 1:50pm. I tried very hard to extend. Thats when the whole day came undone. by 5pm she was so tired and I was trying frantically to just try and get her to eat some dinner before bed. Got her and Jack in the bath and into bed by 6pm but the damage was already done...
She wouldnt settle and by 7:30 fell asleep in my arms. I put her down and she woke up again at 9:30 till 12pm!! She woke up every 2 hours after that and up for the day at 6:30.
Went down for a nap at 9:20 and woke at 10am - Cant extend the nap!
Dont know how to break this

[mmom]

(((HUGS))) On nights like those, I would just skip dinner and do bottle (or BF) and bed.  Baths can be very stimulating and if a LO is already OT, they can make it very difficult to settle.  I think those NWs close to bedtime are OT.

I am wondering about those other NWs though.  What is she doing when she wakes?  How are you trying to settle her?

[JackandJulia]

Hello, Thanks for that

The last night or two have been a bit better - have gotten rid of the OT at bedtime and she seems (fingers crossed) to be going down well and going to sleep happily by herself after her BF.

She still is waking up every 3 hours though. I try not to feed but she is just soooo hungry? I am giving her Solids and trying to tank her up before bed but if i just try and settle her when she wakes she might go down for 20min but then wakes again. She is having a good feed too when she does wake and then goes down well again... Do you think it is just habbit or is she starving (or thirsty for that matter?)

My mum has suggested that I start giving her formula at night instead of a Breast feed... I know that when I express I can collect a good 250ml so there is a good supply but could it be that its not filling her up nutrients wise?

What do you think?

[mmom]

Do you mean that you try not to feed during the night, but after she settles, she wakes again?  That does sound like hunger and if that is what you mean, I would feed.

Either that or she is teething and is feeding out of comfort.  What do you think?

Offering formula is your choice.  But don't feel pressured into it because people tell you she will sleep longer.

[JackandJulia]

No I still feed the hungry little madam, but try and settle her when she wakes up at 9pm after going down at 7pm... She can't be hungry after a big solid dinner and an hour bf? Usually I feed her at around 12am and then again at 4am...

[mmom]

What did your day look like yesterday?  Again, the 9 pm wake up looks OT.

[JackandJulia]

Hello Again and thanks again for your help

Yesterday our day looked like this:

6am Wake
7am Rice Cereal
8am BF
8:45 Nap (1 1/4 hours)
10am Wake
11am Lunch
12pm BF
1:15 Nap (1 1/2 hours)
2:45 Wake
3pm BF
5pm Dinner (Tanked her up with a big portion of Veggis and Custard for pudding)
6pm Bath
6:15 - 7pm BF and then straight down to bed
9pm Wake - Tried to settle with no luck - crying ranges from Angry to Sad at 10pm I gave pain meds and she finally went back down to sleep at 11pm with another BF
4am Wake and BF
6:30am Wake for the day.
She is not teething and I have taken her to the doctor twice now and they say there is nothing wrong (I thought she may be struggleing to digest her food? but Doc says all good there and she is doing big soft poos??)

Dont know what to do anymore? I have started back at work as well so I really think we both need the sleep

[mmom]

Your A is quite long to bed.  Can you move solids to 4/4:30, then BF shortly after and then bed?  Also, can you offer a bath earlier?  I am wondering if it is too stimulating for your LO.  Have you taken the Know Your Baby Quiz? http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=52283.0b  What type of baby is your LO?  That can make a difference in your evening routine.