5 month old catnapper - do I stay on four hour routine or add an extra nap?

[riotk]

Hi everyone,
I have a 5 month old that I've just started on EASY (this is the end of day 3). He's been a chronic catnapper for most of his little life but he's exhausted by the end of the day and needs more sleep. Resettling is incredibly difficult. I've generally dealt with this by adding an extra nap in, but going on the four hour EASY routine, it doesn't seem like the right thing to do. This is how his day looked today (going from last night):

6.30pm S
11pm DF
3.20am NW, settled self
4.30am NW, settled with PU/PD for 35 minutes
6.45am awake, up for the day
7.15am E (BF)
7.30am E (a teaspoon of cereal)
9.10am S (this was in the car as I had a 10am appointment, and wouldn't you know it, he actually slept more than one cycle).
10.20am awake
10.45am E (BF)
1.05pm S (very easy and quick settle)
2.25pm awake (resettled for 1 hour with PU/PD, then gave up)
2.30pm put into the ergo, ate something (me), put the shopping away
3.15pm E (BF)
3.45pm Walk in the ergo to pick up my two year old from childcare
4.15 S (in the ergo)
5pm awake
5.30pm E (vegies, cruskit)
6.30pm E (BF - he couldn't last until 7, was absolutely beside himself)
6.45pm Bath, wind down
7pm S (pat/shh, fell asleep in about 2 minutes)
8pm brief wake, settled with a song and a hand on his chest, back to sleep in a minute or two.

Sooo. Hope that's not too much info to take in.
My questions are:

• When he wakes up after 40 minutes and the resettle fails, do I just push him through until the next routine sleep time is, no matter how tired he is?
• What do I do when I can't settle up to the hour and a half DS is supposed to sleep for because I need to look after my two year old? Just push him through to next routine sleep time anyway?
• When I'm doing PU/PD, I KNOW DS would fall asleep in a second on my shoulder if I'd let him. He sings a little sleepy song and then goes quiet. Then putting him back in the cot means he's absolutely ropable. I'm wondering if it would be better to put him down when he starts making those sleepy noises, rather that when he goes completely quiet?

Thank you so so much for taking the time to read all of this - any support/suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Karina

[riotk]

Please please help. I'm finding this really hard. Had a very very sad catnapping baby all day today, and managing that with my 2 and a half year old is extremely challenging. Any hints or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks.

[~Sara~]

Hi Karina

For what it's worth, I think you're doing a great job so far...please take comfort in that.  It might take a couple of weeks for everything to get smoothed out, but I think you're on the right track!

To answer your questions:

When he wakes up after 40 minutes and the resettle fails, do I just push him through until the next routine sleep time is, no matter how tired he is?

No, you will need to reduce the following A time (started when he woke from his nap) by 20-30 minutes so that the next nap isn't OT.  Yes, it will mean an extra nap in the day, but that's better by far than getting stuck in an OT cycle.  Here's a like that I think you'll find useful--2nd half particularly:
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=128419.0

What do I do when I can't settle up to the hour and a half DS is supposed to sleep for because I need to look after my two year old? Just push him through to next routine sleep time anyway?

I would honestly only spend ~30 minutes trying to extend.  Just follow the advice I mentioned above

When I'm doing PU/PD, I KNOW DS would fall asleep in a second on my shoulder if I'd let him. He sings a little sleepy song and then goes quiet. Then putting him back in the cot means he's absolutely ropable. I'm wondering if it would be better to put him down when he starts making those sleepy noises, rather that when he goes completely quiet?

You can try; you can also use some shh/pat, too, when he's down in the crib to help him settle.  If he's used to falling asleep on you, he's just protesting bc he's so comfy on you.  Stick with it!  You're doing great.

Now, about the routine you posted...is he bf or formula fed?

Also, I know you had an appointment today and that he fell asleep in the car, which is out of your control.  I'm wondering if that first A time is too short in general for him, though.  When you're not running errands, what time do you normally put him down?  2h?  2h15?

[annette.xx]

hi there

im so envious of your nights - im getting similar NW but no self settling always wants a BF and then to top it off is up at 5.45/6am ..gggrrrrrrr!!!

hang in there - I think you are coping so well ...ive also got a 2 yr old DD and ive been such a bad stressed mummy today...its sooooo hard!

Annette.xx

[riotk]

Sara thank you so much for replying. After I sent you that message I stumbled across a post asking people not to direct message mods so I really appreciate you reading and giving your advice.
In answer to your qs, yes he's BF. Usually I try and push him to 2 hours A time in the morning (he can rarely make it to 2hrs 15).

The thing that happens with the catnapping and needing to add an extra nap in (which I've been doing his whole little life) is that by the second or third nap it's clashing with a BF. I then end up feeding earlier and earlier through the day, which means he's not properly hungry and does a snacky, distracted feed. What I've noticed since starting a four hour EASY with him, giving an 11pm DF and then resettling through the night without breastmilk, is that his nights are WAY better. Last night he woke at 3am (usually when I would BF). I heard him cough, make a few noises, and then he was back to sleep. It was as if a miracle had occurred!

I think what I get worried about is that if I stray too far from the BW routine, end up feeding earlier, adding an extra nap etc, that he won't be able to do the nights he's been doing, or will regress. I have PND and have also had a chest infection for the last 5 weeks (grrr) and know that sleep is making all the difference for the way I can get through the days.

Annette his nights have been so good that I almost feel embarrassed asking for help about the days. My first was a shocker - waking every 45 minutes through the night until 10 months old when we took him to sleep school! And I have all this guilt about not having enough time to spend with 2 yo DS whilst settling 5 mo DS. 2 yo ends up in front of the telly while I settle. Wish I could go easier on myself...

Thanks again for the support x

[annette.xx]

I want to say thankyou for this post cos its helped me just reading what you do and made me realise that is it possible to resettle a BF baby without the NF - I did PU/PD for the first time last night to get DS back down instead of BF for 2 out of the 4 usual NW and it was awful but the good news is that for the first time in over 2 months there was no 4th NW and he slept until 7.30am (when I had to wake him!!) this is from a usual 5am wake where I bf and he then catnaps on and off calling me back every 30 mins until 7am!!

I know how you feel about the days cos I had a shocker of a day yesterday where I was so awful to DD getting angry at her wanting too much attention and realised its all a result of the lack of routine and sleepless nights so now I am determined to crack it - I cant go on like this forever!!

one thing im pretty sure about now is that my DS needs more A than I have been giving him - at 5 months they go to 2 hr to 2hrs 30 and I think my DS is tired all the time at 2 hrs cos he is used to that time but then catnaps cos not quite tired enough and then the tired signs keep him from having a full A all the time cos OT is always lurking...if that makes any sense!!

Annette.xx

[riotk]

Hey Annette,

turns out my little guy has bronchialitis. The doctor said it makes sense that he's not sleeping more than 20 minutes as he's finding it so hard to breathe. The ventolin and antibiotics should start to take effect soon. The other thing I've done in the last two days is stopped trying to resettle (just for now) as I have a chest infection too. We're both exhausted and I just couldn't do it.

So resettles are off the menu until we're both better I think. And then when I do, I'm going to keep them at a cap of 30 minutes (unless it's through the night).

Hope your day was better today x

[shresmummy]

Hi ladies, I am also in a similar boat so following along. Sorry ti hear that your lo is sick Hope he gets better soon! Hello again Annette! I was also a stressed mum today. I also got annoyed with my poor dd who wanted some attention andthen I felt terrible the whole day! Why do lo make it so tough by bad napping!

[~Sara~]

I'm sorry to hear he's sick, too!  When he gets to feeling better, then I'd say to go ahead and retackle any nap issues.

*hugs* and keep us posted