Author Topic: Small snack before naptime EAESY ok..? Desperate to extend 45min naps!  (Read 1255 times)

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Offline Eirik&Simonsmamma

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Hi everyone!

I´m a new to this site (Norwegian), was introduced to BW book when my firstborn son was 7 months and it saved my life! I had done all the AP in the world, and was exhausted!! He´s now 2 1/2 years old Textbook/Touchy. I´m a good mix of 60% By-the-Book 20% Highly-Strung and 20% Confident parent. Blessed with another healthy son now 3 months, I was determined to do BW from day 1 and had a complete break-down when he was 6 weeks and realized I´d been too obsessed with the routines and the effects our new life had on his older brother that I hadn´t really cuddled him properly!!! Felt like the worst mum in the world... He´s EBF, textbook/touchy (?? I think?) and taking him 40 min to settle for each nap - and for the first 6 weeks I obsessed with the 3 hour feeds and he cried so much... Struggled with the swaddle and Sush-Pat technique and cried every single day because I felt so inadequate - I
couldn´t console my LO, my toddler was crying for mummy and me crying for both of them... Then I started more like 2-2 1/2 hour EASY and my LO didn´t cry so much and gained quite a bit of weight.. Also because I was struggeling so much with extending the 45-min naps.

After slacking the routine slightly and doing some AP and bonding with my LO by sleeping 1 nap a day on my chest and cuddeling, I read about extending 45min naps and started serious Shush-Pat. Would take me 40min to settle for nap, go in after 30 min to try and extend with paci and Shush-Pat and spend another 40 min trying to re-settle him (really hard with the final jolts). Sometimes it would work, but most of the time it was E time and I would have to pick him up. And the his first yawn after 30 min A time!!! Here we go again.....  After 2 weeks of this, he would settle in about 15 minutes, but still had problems extending his naps... And I felt like I spent my entire day in his dark bedroom. My toddler is now desperate to go with me upstairs and crying badly when he can´t (because he knows I´ll be away for 40 minutes...) Painful!!

After a 2 week holiday, I had started BF just before bedtime.. He doesen´t fall asleep at the breast but is very sleepy by the end of the feed. I have a video monitor, so I can see that his eyes are open when I put him in his crib and he puts himself to sleep.

Q1 -  Will the BF close to bedtime backfire on me? He seems to fall asleep easier and stays asleep for 45min instead of 30 min. And will a short BF before the swaddle and going into the bedroom make him associate food with sleep?

Q2 - He´ll start putting himself back to sleep after 45 min but after 1 hour after he first fell asleep will cry out high-pichted and loud and not settle. Like he can´t get past the jolts.. So I´ve nursed to re-settle and it works... (surprise, surprise... shame on me...) Shush´pat and paci not working, especially after I started the nursing..

Q3 - When I´ve acted on the first yawn (after 45 min A time), I´ve never been able to re-settle again after 45min.  Although he wakes up cranky and yawning, clearly not fully rested. Are the yawns after 30 minutes not really tired signs, and can I wait for the next window? (if there is such a thing?) It seems to make him sleep a bit longer.. He cries badly when he´s overtired and it can happen very suddenly

Q4 - I have a good swaddeling blanket now, but where can I get hold on "white noise"?

His A time is about 1 - 1 hour 15 min, during the day feeds every 2-2 1/2 hours (except when I manage to get 1 1/2 naps, 3 hour feeds), bedtime 6.30, DF 10pm, and night feeds 2 and 5am. Morning starts 6.30am.
He squirms badly when I do the Sit-S, so I stand instead and put him in the crib. When I did Shush-Pat I sit in the nursing chair because I get exhausted from standing and mess up the swaddle from all the squirming. He´s quite a big boy as well.
He´s never slept in my bed.
Settles easier and sleeps longer on the early naps than the afternoon naps.

Hope somebody can help me and that I have provided sufficient information. My husband and toddler are away for 4 days and I need a plan to get beck on track!!

I´ve found reading other postings really useful, but still needed to post myself..

Many thanks in advance (and excuse the looong posting)
Siv (Eirik and Simons mummy)

14th July:
Even though I haven´t had any replies, I tried doing the E 1/2 hour after he woke up this morning and a small snack (same breast) just before nap time. 1 hour A time. He put himself to sleep and again after the 45 min, actually managing a 1 1/2 hour nap by himself for the first time in weeks!!

Is he a snacker? this has been our best day so far, but is it because I´m doing it wrong with the small snack?

Our EASY day so far:

8 - Awake (normally 6.30, but husband and toddler away and LO awake around 5)
8.15 - E
8.15-9 - A
9 - E 5min feed breast
9.15 - S (spent only 15 min falling asleep by himself in the cot!)
11- awake & A
11.45 - E (working towards 3 hour EASY)
12-12.10 - small A
12.10 - E 5 min same breast
12.20 - S (10 min only before falling asleep by himself in the cot)
1.15 - resettle with shush-pat and paci for 30 min
2.30 - awake - slept 2 hours and 10 min including the 30 min re-settling
2.30-3 - A
3 - E
3.15 - A
4 - E 5 min snack
4.15 - S 45 min (spent 15 min trying to resettle but cried)
5.15 - E (my cluster feed....?)
5.30 - A Bath, happy and really enjoyed it!!
6.15 - E 5 min snack (ooohhhh, I´m seeing the pattern of snacker and BF as wind-down...)
6.30 - Put in crib and spent and he spent an hour trying to resettle himself, think the bath got him a bit too excited?
7.30 - Cried a bit (not mantra, but slightly escalating) went in put in paci and he went straight to sleep
10.15 - DF (he now wakes up for the dream feed, normally 9.30 or 10, but today he fell asleep late)
1.30 - E (goes straight to sleep after E)
5.15 - E
7.30 - new day!

Yesterday:
7.30 - Awake after 30 min smiling and cooing
7.45 - E (didn´t seem very hungry, but didn´t want to leave it to late as I´m working towards 3 hour EASY...)
8-8.30 - A 15 min in the gymmi very happy and tummy time with me
8.30 - E 5 min snack
8.45 - S 2 hours!!! Woke with high picth screams after 1 hour and settled with paci and shush-pat (like something happens at the final jolts?)
10.45 - awake, lots of poop so a bit of A time to work towards 3 hour EASY
11.10 - E Very hungry, spat up loads afterwards (my milk supply has increased with my relaxing days with toddler away from home...)
45 min A time
12.10 - E snack part of wind down (oh,dear... what am I getting myself into...)
12.15- S 1 hour, tried to resettle for in and out of sleep another hour
14.30 - E
45 min A time, looked v tired
3.15 - S (after yet another snack...) 45 min, tried to resettle with paci and shush-pat for 30 min, gave up. Had tried unswaddle 1 arm for the first time as he´s sucking his fingers, but think it scared him at the 45min jolts?)
4.45 - A (know this should have been only 10 min and back to try nap, but sister and 6-months old visiting..)
6 - E
6.15 - S for the night (I normally aim for bedtime 7, but early today because I messed up afternoon nap)
9 - DF (early because I wanted to try bottle as it´s been 2 1/2 weeks because of holiday, he refused just gagged, BF instead)
0 - E (no surprise because of early DF)
4 - E
5.30 - E (prob not hungry, but me tired and desperate to get back to sleep)
7.30 - awake happy!

Today:
7.30 - got him up after 30-45 min cooing, lots of poop
8 - E (not very hungry, on and off the boob, seemed more tired than hungry, unsure how long he´s been awake byhimself in the crib)
another 20min A time, yawns and scratching-like movements in face and eyes
8.20 - E (more than a snack, more that a full meal toghether with the 8 feed)
8.30 - S out himself to sleep and still sleeping, so made the transition again from the first 45min to the next on his own!

Update 16th July:
Last couple of days been able to extend some naps with paci and shush-pat. But I´ve realised that I´ve made the snack with BF part of the wind-down rituale... Is this fundamentally wrong and what will be the consequences of this? (I know it´s probably wrong, but he calms down so quickly and lies with eyes wide open and drifitng off to sleep by himself in the space of 15 min). And on the 1st nap of the day he mades the transition from the first 45 to the next by himself. My toddler starts nursery 1st August, and I´m tempted to continue this until then as it makes our lives so much easier... And he is happier than I´ve ever seen him because of the long naps! Or will I regret it horribly??? He´s still DF at 10pm and feeds 1 or 2 and 5 in the night. Coos in his crib at 7. Please help!!!!

« Last Edit: July 16, 2011, 08:14:02 am by Eirik&Simonsmamma »


Offline Colin Macs Mom

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bumping up the list for you :)
Jessica
Mom to Colin Ronald, August 18, 2005
Spirited + Reflux =  :o


Offline Shiv52

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Hugs Hun. I've had a read through all your info but on phone and on way to bed so I will post some ideas in the morning.





Offline Eirik&Simonsmamma

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Thank you so much for taking the time to read!!! Really appreciate it!! Have now updated with EASY for last couple of days to give an even more extensive picuture...


Offline Shiv52

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After 2 weeks of this, he would settle in about 15 minutes, but still had problems extending his naps... And I felt like I spent my entire day in his dark bedroom. My toddler is now desperate to go with me upstairs and crying badly when he can´t (because he knows I´ll be away for 40 minutes...) Painful!!

{{{hugs}}}  I think when you have 2 LOs you have to balance up the sleep training with your toddler and your needs.  even when I had my DD1 I attempted to extend naps for 10 minutes and if it didn't work I got her up and got on with our day.  You can just shorten the next A time and bring the nap sooner.  Sanity saver! 

What age is your LO now?





Offline Shiv52

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Q1 -  Will the BF close to bedtime backfire on me? He seems to fall asleep easier and stays asleep for 45min instead of 30 min. And will a short BF before the swaddle and going into the bedroom make him associate food with sleep?

If he's not falling asleep totally then I think thats fine.  I have done that with DD2 and it has worked fine.  Its just like a top up feed to help her relax and be full for her nap. 

Q2 - He´ll start putting himself back to sleep after 45 min but after 1 hour after he first fell asleep will cry out high-pichted and loud and not settle. Like he can´t get past the jolts.. So I´ve nursed to re-settle and it works... (surprise, surprise... shame on me...) Shush´pat and paci not working, especially after I started the nursing..

This is where you might encounter problems longterm.  I wouldn't feed to extend or I really do think it will be a hard prop to break.   I think its better to try ssh-pat for 10 minutes and then just get him up and try again later.  Have you tried HTTJ or being in as soon as he wakes to resettle by replugging his paci?

Q3 - When I´ve acted on the first yawn (after 45 min A time), I´ve never been able to re-settle again after 45min.  Although he wakes up cranky and yawning, clearly not fully rested. Are the yawns after 30 minutes not really tired signs, and can I wait for the next window? (if there is such a thing?) It seems to make him sleep a bit longer.. He cries badly when he´s overtired and it can happen very suddenly
45 minute naps can often be UT and hard to extend for sure.  But he sound OT from your description of waking unsettled.   

My toddler starts nursery 1st August, and I´m tempted to continue this until then as it makes our lives so much easier... And he is happier than I´ve ever seen him because of the long naps! Or will I regret it horribly???
Honestly if its working at the minute and he's getting caught up on some sleep I'd just do it for the meantime.  If you need to wean it then you can at a later stage.  You could just move the top up fed a few minutes earlier every few days and fade it out but for now I'd go with it. 

I'll be back with EAS advice when I know how old your LO is.  Hope I haven't missed it in your post!





Offline Eirik&Simonsmamma

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Thanks a million for the support, my LO is 14 weeks old :) I briefly mentioned it, but for such a looong post with my whole life story it´s easily missed  ;D Today he managed to get two 1 1/2 hour naps, I watched him self-sooth and resettle on the monitor. On the second nap he woke up with the high-pichted shrills at 45 min again (like he sometimes does after 1 hour at the jolts to cycle no.2), but I couldn´t get to his room instantly, but by the time I had got outside his room (1 min) he started calming himself! Think maybe I´ve rushed in too quickly previously?

Wow - you don´t know how much it means to me to get the support for the top up feed before nap time. It really seems to do the trick, and he seems to sleep much better for it. I guess because I EBF, he digests quicker too. Today has been our best day so far, he´s so happy and I can finally enjoy my gorgeous little baby!!

I totally agree about feed to extend (sorry don´t quite know how to do the quote thing) is a BAD idea... Only did it a few times, but tried shush-pat, paci and HTTJ after that.  Sometimes it works and other times it doesn´t.  You´re right about the UT thing, I think I´m so scared of him being OT that I out him down for naps too soon. Sometimes he´s cooing, and I guess that means it´s too soon...?

The 2 weeks I spent with the shush-pat efforts before our holiday, I went in every 30 min to re-settle. I´m now finding shush-pat harder in his cot as he turns and wriggles so much. I tend to just hold his front with arms and back tightly. I guess the hard efforts is finally paying off, but it´s been the top-up feeds that has done the trick for sure. I´ll try to reduce them like you suggested and replace with something else in the wind-down when my DS1 is back at daycare in August.

You have MADE MY DAY with your words and advice, I´m so grateful!!! Looking forward to more advice when you have time. All your time and efforts to help me is SO appreciated!! Thank you!!
« Last Edit: July 16, 2011, 17:43:26 pm by Eirik&Simonsmamma »


Offline Shiv52

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Sorry only getting back to you now.  Wasn't about much at the weekend. 

And yes I do see where you wrote 3 months initially!!

One thing I will point out is that short naps are very often developmental and improve with time.  I actually think your EAS looks good.  1hr 15 A time is about right for 3 months.  ALthough by the end of 3 months a lot of LO are managing about 1.30. 

http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=64158.msg476652

The reason i wouldn't push it too much though is that you are getting your best naps after 1.15 in the morning.  And when you push it a bit more he seems to wake during the nap and need more help transitioning if that makes sense.  I think I would stick to 1.15 and see does that help the naps. What is your gut feelings on the A times?

I also wouldn't feel bad about putting a limit on how long you resettle a nap for.  With my DD1 after 15 minutes of resettling if she wasn't asleep she wouldn't go back to sleep.  Some LOs need a bit longer but if its not working one nap just get him up and go on with the day and try for a nap again after an hour.   I found replugging the paci aand sshing before she would have woke (kind of like wake to sleep) worked for the nap extending here.

How have things been? 





Offline Eirik&Simonsmamma

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Re: Small snack before naptime EAESY ok..? Desperate to extend 45min naps!
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2011, 10:01:48 am »
Hello and so sorry about the very late update!!! Things were quite busy after my DS1 returned..
Sticking to A time for DS2 1 hour to 1 15min really helped!! And he´s 4 months now and for the past week I´ve been able to extend A time to 1 hour 30 min and he´s resettling himself after 45 min without a sound and taking 2 hour naps!! Amazing!! Seems that we´re approaching 4 hour EASY... I still do the top up feed before nap time, but he´s falling asleep by himself. Will start reducing when I´ve sorted out my DS1 EW and NW (new after stay at Grandma, going back to nursery last week and my husband returning to work after 3 months at home - but that´s a different board, I know...)

I have 2 questions still...
1. Do you count the nap time from he´s in the crib, or when he´s actually asleep? I´m wondering if the 15-20 min he falls asleep is included in the nap time?
2. Is the 10 min wind-down time included in the A time?

Thanks for all your help! ;D