Author Topic: Feeling defeated and it's only day two! 3.5 month, naps and pg 231 of BWSAYP  (Read 1158 times)

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Offline Rinkydink

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Hi
I really could do with some guidance, well I really need a plan in truth for how to handle nap training.  I would like to transition 15 wk DD to 4 hr EASY, she has been doing relatively well on 3.5 hr EASY so I read the BWSAYP pg 231 case study which looked exactly like the issue we face: short naps ( used to be 45 mins now 30 exactly) and AP ( guilty as charged for holding through naps, walking etc) while moving on to 4 Hr - brilliant I thought I'll just do what Tracy does in the case study, but I'm stuck on the following and am flaundering again:
When I first put DD down she goes off straight away
Then she has started to wake at 30 mins
She doesn't cry but waves her arms about and carries on yawning, if I don't pick her up she will start to grissle - she's never got herself off to sleep again after a daytime nap EW. But she does at night.
Maybe I rush in but I don't know what to do- should I wait? And if so how long?

I then either try our version of shhhh pat or PUPD like in the book - but I thought PUPD was for when babies are crying? I wouldn't say she is crying as such,but she does go back to sleep on me after only a couple of minutes, then I put her down and within minutes she is awake again.

Am at a loss and could really do with a solid plan of action as I really want to be consistent, I need someone to tell me this works! To make the tired red eyed little girl I've got to worth the couple of days 'training' - basically I don't know what I'm doing.  Should I do PUPD like the case study? I certainly don't do it as much as Tracy says in the book, should I just do that and forget about shh pat?
I've already caved today and held for the second part of her nap after 1 hr of trying to extend.

Would appreciate any opinions!

Xx










« Last Edit: December 13, 2011, 19:19:27 pm by Rinkydink »

Offline stevesmum

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I'm having the same trouble... my lo wakes early but isn't crying (and I know he can't survive on 5-6 40 mins naps - or at least I can't!!) He also doesnt cry much just grizzle,  so I'm with you thinking that pupd doesn't work... again, night times ew are fine.... I've been trying to get through on shpat - sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't.


Offline Shiv52

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If she wakes at 30 minutes can you go in at aout 20-25 minutes and when she started to stir ssh-pat her back to sleep?  Or try wake to sleep at that time and see does it get her through the 30 minute wake up.

PU/PD is mainly use as a last resort if shh-pat doesnt work first so I'd give it a go first.  I think it sounds like she needs some help getting past that wake up and then hopefully as she settles into a 4 hour routine she'll get past it herself. 

I found when sleep training for naps if I left her to settle herself initally she wouldn't and then I couldn't get her resettled at all.  I had most success with not letting her wake up too much at all and resettling the second she stirred.  then it seemed once she was used to the longer naps she started making it through herself.

HTH x





Offline Rinkydink

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I just tried to shhpat through transition led to full on crying, only works when I'm holding her and lately not even then.

Offline Shiv52

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How many times did you try that.  It could take a few days for her to get used to it and not being held. 





Offline Rinkydink

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That's what I mean, I need to be consistent but I'm not, but don't feel confident enough that I'm doing the right thing so to perservere.  Do you think I should just do shhpat for a few days? If it doesn't work and I can't extend the nap how long do I carry on? And if she is awake does that then count as A time? It ends up feeling like we spend our whole time in a dark room and my hand is about to drop off from patting with no results.  Sorry about the moans feeling really bad at the mo. , she has also started eating less instead of more which has thrown me for six as I thought she would be hungrier on a 4 hr but is eating even less than normal :s

Offline Shiv52

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{{{hugs}}}

It is really tough xx

I do think shh-pat will work.  So i would try to get in before she wakes and then resettle before she wakes fully.  Just ssh-pat when she starts to stir and keep going.  If she does get upset and is crying hard do lift her and help to calm her but not until she is asleep.  Just for a minute or so and then back down and continue resettling in the cot. 

I think Tracy said in establishing a 4 hour routine you would keep trying to extend for the duration of the nap and then get her up.  My sanity would never have took that though so if i couldn't get her resettled after 15 minutes I would just get her up and try again at the next nap.  You'd have to reduce the next A time a bit so OT doesn't set in though. 

If you AP and rock her to sleep to extend are you able to put her back down or do you have to hold her for the rest of the nap?

DO you want to post what your day is looking like and we can see if there are any tweaks may help?

Are you BFing or FF?  HOw many oz is she getting in a day?  Anything else going on?  Reflux issues? 





Offline Rinkydink

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Will post EASY tonight as typing one handed as trying to settle for yet another ruddy nap.....
;)

Offline Shiv52

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 :-*  Hope she settles for you xx





Offline Rinkydink

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**warning a total essay splurge from me below sorry **

HI
me again.  Well that last nap also lasted 30 minutes.  I was thinking about posting our EASY but we've got so many different days, so I thought I would give some background first of things that have been going on lately.

1. DD has always been swaddled, for naps and BT but in the last couple of days we've changed swaddle styles so now instead of having her arms by her side or on her chest for naps we have the 'Love to swaddle up' where her arms are up in the natural sleeping position, we've kept the old style swaddle for BT. My thinking was to get her used to it in the daytime before trying it for BT, the long term goal is to wean her off it as I'm worried about her rolling over while swaddled.

2. As I've posted we've had a lot of AP with DD as I didn't discover BW until week 10 ish.  We are also pretty certain we have silent reflux problems but she is on meds and they help a lot I'm happy it is under control.  But all this meant we held her for naps and sleeping from the start but she now sleeps really well at BT in her cot in her swaddle.  Our AP includes walking and jigging to sleep and holding for naps.  I hold for the entire nap as when I try to put her down she wakes but for the last two days I've been putting her down in her cot (except for one nap extension when I caved and held).

3. I EBF until about 10 wks old, DD is now fully FF.  If I look at the suggested measurements of how much she should be taking regarding her weight / age on Babycentre (or BW) she has never taken even the minimum suggested but has so far been on a steady weight gain.  Am having her weighed tomorrow so will now better.  Her first feed of the day is the best between 150 - 180 ml, from there on it can vary between 100 - 150 during the day, her last feed when she is really tired can be as little as 70 ml.  We are trying to DF at 10pm but it can be as little as 20ml, on average about 60 ml unless my DH happens to accidentally wake her then she took 100ml

4. My husband does the morning first feed so I get a break and we've never quite nailed the hand over, I think he keeps her up too long.

5. BT / night sleep : thinking about it I think she had a growth spurt at 13wk as she suddenly started an extra 2 - 3 times at night hungry, then after 3 days she stopped and we had one night when she slept through, then she started waking for 1 NF at 3am  instead of her usual two.  This went on for a week but the last couple of nights she has started waking at 1am and 2am as well, I ignore the 1am and she usually goes back to sleep but the 2am is proving difficult so I leave to see if she will self settle , then do a nappy change before pushing it as close to 3am as poss. before feeding.  She then goes down with no probs until she wakes for the AM.

So I am aware that in the last couple of days I've tried to move from 3.5 hr EASY, try a new swaddle and stop AP.  When I write it down it does look like a lot for her to take on so maybe that's why naps have gone to pot, what do you think?.  As I think I mentioned naps only used to be 45 minutes when in her cot but they are now 30 minutes.

EASY 3.5 on Sunday

5.15 Awake
5.25 90ml
6.50 awake
8.45 - 160 ml
9.15 - 11.30: AP nap held
12.15 - 145 ml
1.30 - 3 nap when out in pram
3.30 - 110ml
5.15 - 5.37 nap in cot
6.30 - 110 ml, good BT self settled to sleep
10pm DF - 70ml

EASY 4 hrs Monday

1am - woke left to settle
2am - woke used gentle PUPD to settle but no use
2.45 - fed 120 ml
7.05 - woke (late for DD)
7.15 - 180ml
9 - 9.45 nap in cot with new swaddle couldn't extend
10.45 - 110ml
11.55 - 12.25 nap in cot with new swaddle couldn't extend (phone rang, cats wailed all at key moments)
1.25 - 2pm - put to sleep on tummy in cot
2.20 - 150ml
3.30: grumbly and tired
3.57 - 4.30 nap in cot with new swaddle
5.50 - baby massage, dad comes home
6.15 - 110
6.40 asleep
10pm DF - 110 (as dad woke her up!)
2am awake, waited until 2.30 for nappy change, 2.45 to feed

then went into today which bares no resemblence to any EASY!

I think her A times are too long but I do start to act when I spot the yawns and she is good natured she only gets grumbly when tired in the afternoon/early evening.

Soooo, what shall I do about naps?  keep on as I am?  I have a winddown, pop her in her swaddle on the bed, close the curtains and blinds, pick her up and pop her in her cot, she starts to fuss, I start shhpat, she carries on fussing, I pick her up, slow dance with her for a few minutes, pop her back in her cot and she is starting to just go to sleep at this point I think out of exhaustion.

Problem starts when she wakes early from her naps - I'm all over the place about what to do.  At the mo I do a mixture of shh pat and PUPD as per BWSAYP pg 231 Fourth Month Case Study.  I know you say do shhhpat to extend but like you there is only so much patting my hand can take.  But I can see she is tired as she is awake and yawning. AHHHHHH am driving myself mad! 

Sorry, maybe I just needed to get it all out, what a rant.....

xx