Randoms night feeds messing up routine! HELP PLEASE!!

[hopper84]

Hi all

I'm hoping someone might have the answer to my problem.

Amelie was a in a good routine until showing signs or reflux two weeks ago (she is now 16 weeks). She is now on gaviscon and feeding much better but has taken to waking in the night to feed (something she hasn't done for a long time as she has always had enough milk during the day to see her through.

Although she is still having the correct amount during the day she is now waking and having half a bottle at arounf 4:30-5:30am which then means she does not want her first feed of the day (which used to be arounf 7am). Today she did not want anything till 9am but which point she was tired and therefore did not have a full feed again!

Is there anything i can do to avoid feeding between 4 and 5 so that she is ready for her feed at 7? I can cope with getting up to feed as am so relieved she is feeding again after weeks of battling with her but the knock on effect it is having for the rest of the day isn't doing either of us any good.

Your thoughts all gratefully recieved!! Thankyou xx

[hopper84]

anyone??

[Lolly]

If she has been going without a nightfeed have you tried resettling or offering water rather than a feed? There is a big growth spurt around 16 weeks/ 4 months so it may be a phase that lasts a few days.

If it is having an impact on her first feed I would try to resettle rather than feed, offer a drink of cooled boiled water or just a couple of oz.

What do you think?

Laura

[hopper84]

Hi laura thanks for your response.

~I tried both jus offering water and just offering 2oz. She seemed to know it was water and just cried even more! Gave her a few oz when she woke at 4am and she has still only has 4oz (instead of her usual 6/7oz) at 8am. This just seems to be a cycle we can't break. Perhaps she is having a growth spurt but that would surely mean she would then be hungry again four hours after having only a few oz....I am feling very sorry for myself today and DH was very unsympathtic this morning...."how can you be tired you went to bed at 9pm?"...yes dear but then i was up at 11pm to fed, 2am to settle 4am to feed 6:30am to settle and now up for the day and 7:15!!! silly man.

I read in one book (i forget which now) that it was possible to dilute the formula over a period of days to wean them off the night feed...is this safe? I know its bad news to put extra scoops in but what about less?  
All thoughts and comments gratefully recieved

Laura xx

[Lolly]

I'm sorry you feel like that. Don't forget that we are all mums just like you with children and jobs as well as helping out here. Many members aren't confident that they have any suggestions to help you so don't post. I have been in work all day yesterday and today as well as everything I do to look after two children and a husband so haven't had much chance to get back to you.

You can dilute the formula, but I found reducing the bottle gradually worked better as the volume was reducing as well. If you want to reduce you need to do it by 1oz every 3 nights so they get used to the new volume before you reduce it again.

Can you post your EASY so we can see how things are during the day too so..

Eat - what times, how much
Activity  - how long for
Sleep - what times, how long for

Laura

[hopper84]

Thankyou Laura. i'm sorry i got cross..not aimed at you specifically at all just feeling a bit desperate and was so hoping someone would have the answer. I will definitely try your suggestions. I don't feel I can post my EASY at the minute as quite simply we don't have one!! Its all gone to pot! She is eating before sleeping and having awful short naps. Having read about switching to four hour EASY i think this may be the root of the problem...she is simply not hungry every three and so is taking too little then waking at night to make up for it. Again I am sorry for getting cross and i completely understand that everyone has busy lives too...feeling very emotional today. Laura x

[Lolly]

No problem

It could well be the no routine that's causing the wakings and need for bottle in the night then. That's really why EASY has the E apart from sleep, it could be that she is waking and needing the bottle to go back to sleep rather than actually needing the milk. I imagine that if you can get her onto a 4 hour EASY she will take better feeds and sleep better too. Have you posted on EASY for help?

Laura

[hopper84]

Thankyou Laura. I have posted on EASY just asking whether or not to start as if starting over i.e. 'Starting EASY from four months'. We've been so out of routine for a number of weeks now so thought this might be best. I also asked wther i could start now even though Amelie isn't technically four months for another week and whether or not i should wait until afte her immunisations next wednesday...Have you any thoughts on this?? x

[Lolly]

I don't see why you can't just start. Begin in the morning and take the day from there. Bottle fed babies often need 4 hours between feeds earlier than 4 months, so a few days isn't going to make a difference. The imms may make her off for a day or two but they didn't make much difference with my two so I wouldn't let that put you off.

I would try and start with the first cycle, so fee when she wakes try and have her down and asleep by 2 hours after she woke and hope she has a decent nap - try and extend the nap if she wakes before 1.5 hours. If you can get a decent first cycle then the next *should* follow - if not at least try and get the feeds spaced to 4 hours.

What do you think?

Laura

[hopper84]

I'm glad you said that coz thats exactly what i'm doing!! Thank goodness last night amelie woke at 1am to feed as she missed her last fdeed due to odd timings all day and then slept till 7am- perfect timing for starting the four hour routine today. She didn't nap for long enough at 9am and tried to extend but she kept laughing! So as you said am going to focus on the feed times today and worry about the naps once we've got this established. The thing I was most concerned about with regard to doing it just before 4 months was using PU/PD at night or for extending naps as knew it wasn't recommended before 4months. I did try W2S a few times with some success some maybe will keep up with that more consistently over the next week and see what happens. Thanks for the advice xx

[Lolly]

How was yesterday?

You don't need to use pu/pd if pat/shh is still working for you, I did use it with DS at 4.5 months when we got rid of the paci but I still pat/ssh mine as toddlers if they needed it!

Laura

[hopper84]

Hi Laura

Yesterday didn't go too well. We did keep to the four hour feeding times but unfortunately Amelie didn't take any more milk than normal at these feeds...in fact on two of them she took less!! She was very sniffly though so think she may have a cold. SHe actually only had 20oz of milk all day but didn't wake until 6am..v bizarre but perhaps just less appetite due to cold?? She has been better today and feed every four hours for first 3 feeds then split 4th feed at 5:30 and 6:45pm. She still needs another 4oz to have her recommended daily amount but hopefully dream feed will sort that out (?!). I honestly think we are dealing with a number of problems at the minute...the late diagnosis of reflux which i'm not sure is fully under control, this cold she now seems to have and of course the 45 minute naps which are now having a knock on effect on her A times which seem to be getting shorter. All in all I think i have done the right thing in moving to four hour feed times as no longer feel i'm force feeding her (!) but without sorting out the nap situation she cannot be fully on 4hr EASY.  The problem i have with shh pat is that she seems to get v upset at being rolled onto her side (she sleeps on her back)...any advice on this would be much appreciated- i think i am doing it wrong!! As of monday, when i have a free week, i am going to really focus on the nap situation whether it be W2S or shh patting. Should i try this for all naps or focus on the luchtime nap do you think? Many thanks for all your advice so far Laura x

[Lolly]

It could well be the combo of cold and reflux having an impact - poor girl!

I would say that gaviscon is pretty useless really, it's just a thickener and doesn't do anything to reduce or neutralise the acid so if you think the reflux is bothering her go back to the Dr. We took a long time to get proper treatment for my DS, in the end he finally got onto ranitidine and reflux formula at 6 months and that made all the difference. 4 months seems to be a peak reflux time too. We knew better with DD and had her on the same combo much earlier.

With pat/shh, you don't need to roll her on her side, in fact with refluxers rubbing or stroking is better than patting so you can rub her legs, arms, stroke her head, or even pat the mattress. Experiment a bit to find what she likes. It's up to you which nap although I think it's better to be consistent and do the same for all so she learns this is what happens at nap times.

Laura