Night waking every 45 min despite extra feedings for possible GS

[mamatea4]

DD2 is 12 wks tomorrow.  Here's a brief background: She had day/night reversal issues for first 7 weeks or so & also has bad problem with gas/wind, but that all seemed to be getting better until about 5-6 days ago.  I was finally getting her to sleep 5 1/2 hour stretch till next feed, after 10:30 DF. She even did a 7 hour stint the night before things went downhill.  I give this background to let you know that I haven't had more than a week or two of decent sleep myself since she's been born (and usually only 4-5 hours at that), so I can't seem to wrap my head around what the issue is here & I need some more eyes on the situation please!

She's gone thru every other GS without me hardly even noticing, maybe due to over abundant milk supply at beginning?  And I'm not even sure that a GS is at the root of the problem now, maybe just a contributing factor?  She sleeps pretty well at nap time; sometimes waking at 45 min, but can usually go back to sleep on own or with at couple mins of shh/pat from me.  In the evening with a BT routine she goes down well at 7:15pm.  After the DF (for which she usually wakes up) she'll usually go to sleep again pretty easily.  Typically, she'll wake at 2:30 with gas, I'll give her medicine & paci & she's back to sleep until approx 4 am, I nurse her & she'll go back to sleep until 7am.

Starting last Thursday though she didn't go back to sleep well after 2:30 wake-up and even after nursing between 3-4 am she remained somewhat unsettled the rest of the night until about 6 am then slept well till 7 am, this pattern continued until Sunday night.  Sunday night was worse, she woke every 45 min after 2am.  Last night she woke every 45 min after 1am.  And the gas medicine didn't seem to help.  I know just looking at this, it seems like a GS issue, but if that were the problem why wouldn't she sleep for at least a couple hours after her 4 am feed?  And why would she settle the first few nights at 6am instead of crying for food?  Why does she not seem extra hungry during the day?

And to make it more confusing, I added a 9pm cluster feed last night - hoping that would possibly alleviate the problem, but it seemed to make it worse.  She woke earlier.  This is in addition to feeding extra during the day.  A couple weeks ago she was having trouble going back to sleep for naps.  I adjusted her A time - took away time, added time - I made sure not to OS.  The only thing to help was to top off her feed.  So due to schedule with DD1 I couldn't feed every 2 1/2 hours, instead I topped off 20 mins after each nursing session.  And I've continued that for now in anticipation of the 12 week GS.  So again, you see my confusion.

I thought maybe it has to do with the A time in that she's not sleeping well at night so she can't stay up during day more than 1hour 10 min on avg, but then with longer naps during day (2 hour) it messes up the night sleep - if so I have a viscious cycle that I don't know how to get out of.

Any help would be very much appreciated!!  I'm so sleep deprived.  I already had a fender bender in my car because of it.


 

[Bex09]

Hi there, do you want to post your average day in EAS format for us to take a look at?

[mamatea4]

Yes.  Here it is:

E 7am
A 715-7:50 (at 7:30-7:40 top off BF, then more playtime, then wind-down & lay her down, takes about 5 min to fall asleep if not UT or OS) And this A time shortest, she stays groggy from not sleeping at night
S 8-10

E 10am
A 10:15-11 with much the same as above
S 11:15-1pm

E 1pm
A 1:15-2pm with much the same as first am slot above
S 2:10-4:15

E 4:15
A 4:30-5:20 with much the same as first am slot above
S 5:30-6:10

A 6:20-6:35 Bath
E 6:45-7:10
A 7:10 (give gas medicine & vitamin d drops) Read Story
S 7:15pm-10:15pm

E 10:15 DF
S 10:40-2:30 - give gas medicine & paci to go back to sleep
S 2:45-4:00
E 4am
S 4:30-7am

E 7am - restart day

*The routine from 10:40pm to 7am is what is out of wack as far as sleep and nursing so what I posted here is what was an average night until a week ago

Thanks!

[Erin M]

I thought maybe it has to do with the A time in that she's not sleeping well at night so she can't stay up during day more than 1hour 10 min on avg, but then with longer naps during day (2 hour) it messes up the night sleep - if so I have a viscious cycle that I don't know how to get out of.

I think you're exactly right.  It's really hard to stretch that A time when they're tired -- you might try to just add 5 minutes to each of your A times and push very slowly out from there.  The fact that she's waking up during the night and not wanting to go back to sleep usually means that she's ready for an A time increase.

You do seem to have some GS issues there too.  With one of my babies (dd1 I think, it all blurs together!) she'd feed exactly the same during the day when she had a GS, but her night sleep would be off.  What happens if you let her lead during the GS -- try to keep to your usual daytime routine and if she is having a hard time settling at night, feed her when she wakes then?  That's honestly my usual approach when it comes to a GS, only ds would demand to be fed during the day more often.

HTH!  (((hugs))), lack of sleep is really hard!

[mamatea4]

After last night I'm more convinced it's primarily an A issue.  We go to church on Wed. nights and last week afterward she slept so good!  Fed at 10:30pm or so when we got home, as last feed before bed, and she slept until 5 am then back to sleep till I woke her at 7am (she'd also had about an hour of sleep at church - certainly not her usual stretch).  Then the night wakings started the next day.  Last night was church again, and guess what?  She slept from 10:30 to 2 -with a slight disturbance -  & went right back to sleep until 5 am for a "snack" and then slept again until woke her at 7am.

I didn't think this was the primary issue at first because babies normally don't sleep as well with less sleep - but maybe in her case she's just getting more than she really needs during the day and the longer evening counterbalanced it??

Anyway, I will try again to extend her A times - maybe she's ready now.  Last time it didn't work and she had trouble settling and sleeping at nap time.

And I like the suggestion too about letting her lead with nursing during the GS, simply because she doesn't seem to be as extra hungry as you'd expect during the typical time frames (give or take a week) for a GS.  So at night if she can't settle within a few minutes of waking up & me giving her a paci then I will nurse her.  Given how she just snacked this morning though and how last night at her last feed before bed that she was more interested in sleeping - I'd say maybe this GS is over??

[Erin M]

I'd say maybe this GS is over??

Sounds like it. 

I think you've got the right idea with the A time -- try stretching slowly, ds in particular never took kindly to stretching his A time, but he would really need it. 

[Bex09]

Totally agree with Erin. Let us know how you get on.

[mamatea4]

Ok, so here's an update - I'd love to say that all is resolved, but instead we are in a holding pattern.

Last Wed. she slept from 10:30pm till 5am, fed, back to sleep till 7am
Thursday from 10:30 till 4:30, fed, back to sleep till 7am
Friday from 10:30 till 3:30, fed, back to sleep till 7am
Saturday on from 10:30 till 2:30, fed & RESTLESS till 6, give paci & extend her sleep till 6:30am then have to restart day early (at least she's going back to sleep after 2:30 now, but restless the rest of night & not getting a solid sleep)

As you can see, it gets progressively worse from Wednesday evening & then resets (been this way for last two weeks).  I've extened her daytime A times to 1:20 - I've reduced her evening catnap to 20 mins - I've given extra feeds - nothing seems to work. 

I thought about eliminating her DF & just nursing her at midnight in the hopes that she'll sleep after that till 5 am, but that doesn't help me much since I'd have to feed her twice after I go to bed instead of once.  And besides, I don't know if that'd work anyway.

I can't do away with her catnap alltogether yet, she wouldn't be able to make it thru the evening without a meltdown.

I don't know if I should extend her A times any further, she can barely handle what I'm doing now.

Do I just have to resolve myself to feeding her every 3.5 to 4 hours at night (6:45p-10:15/2:30-6 - then hope a paci helps her go back to sleep till 6:45 & restart day early)?

I think she should be able to sleep consistently for at least a 5 hour stretch since she does sometimes & she's a good weight (at least 13 lbs) so she's eating well & should be able to consume enough to hold her those longer stretches too.  And her sleep should be deeper it seems.

[Erin M]

Do I just have to resolve myself to feeding her every 3.5 to 4 hours at night

This might be it right here.  My ds has always been pretty big for weight, but was nursing like that for months -- 4 hours was actually an accomplishment for him.  I would try to put him off with the paci (not like he actually took it) but it just made his sleep more unsettled.  I found that he did better when I just fed him right away.  Not sure why you're getting the unsettled sleep after 2:30 -- do you make sure that you burp him well after that feed?  Does it seem like any other sort of discomfort? 

She's little to drop the CN yet, I think you're right in keeping it there. 

[mamatea4]

Not sure why she's so unsettled after 2:30am either.  I don't burp because she falls asleep during this feed & don't want to wake her back up.  But from there on out it's like she goes through the unsettled day time sleep of waking every 45 min.  Fortunately, she'll usually nod back off on her own the last few days until about 6 am, but as to what's keeping her from having deeper sleep - I don't know.  She doesn't seem to be in discomfort. 

Is it just her sleep pattern at this age? 

And Erin, how long did you have to nurse your son every 4 hours in evening - do you remember how old he was before that lengthened on it's own?

[Erin M]

It could just be her sleep pattern but I'd honestly try to burp her a bit, that really helped ds when he was tiny.

As for the 4 hours....I'm trying so hard to remember...I know it certainly felt like forever!  I think he was stuck on 3 hours (with the occasional 4 hour stretch until about the 3 month mark), and then we went to pretty consistent 4 hour feeds overnight for a few months (I remember being stuck on 3 AM feedings forever) which gradually stretched out maybe somewhere around the 5 month mark??  Could have been earlier though, that seems like a long time!  It was an easy feed though, he'd nurse and go right back to sleep so I didn't mind it all that much, it's the unsettled stuff for the rest of the night that makes it hard!