Where did we go wrong?

[bluebell568]

My dd is 6 months and 2 weeks. She used to sleep through the night. From 6 weeks she began to sleep long stretches at night and after a few weeks was consistently sleeping from 8pm until 8am. At 4 months she began to occasionally wake in the night but was still sleeping through regularly. At 24 weeks we hit a growth spurt and she fed constantly day and night for a few days. That was a month ago and since then she hasn't slept through the night. She is still waking up 2 or 3 times a night.

She often wakes about 1 hour after going to sleep. She suddenly wakes screaming. I have found that putting teething gel on her gums often imediately makes her suck her thumb and go straight back to sleep. I have tried teething gel at bedtime and sometimes she sleeps through this hour mark and other times she still wakes up. So I put this wake up down to her teeth.

She then wakes at completely random times through the night. The following are consecutive nights

night 1: 9.15pm, 1am, 5.15am, 6.45am
night 2: 5.15am
night 3: 9:45pm, 5.30am
night 4: 10.30pm 4.30am
night 5: 9.15pm, 10pm, 5:30am
night 6: 11:30; 3am, 5:30am

I have always worried about not feeding her if she is hungry so each time she wakes I try to settle her but then worry that she might really be hungry so I end up feeding her. Usually she falls asleep on the breast and I then transfer her back to her cot.

I’m sure that it is doing this that has caused the problem but when I try to soothe her without feeding her she gets more and more upset and I don’t know if she is just cross because she wants to nurse or because she is really hungry so I let her nurse. Other times I feed her just because I am so tired I know it is the quickest way to get her back to sleep. I have tried to limit the time she feeds for or to stop her before she falls asleep but often she gets upset again or wakes again soon after and I end up feeding her again.

If she used to go 12 hours between feeds when she was 4 months, can I assume she is capable of doing that now or might her needs have changed as she has got bigger. Or might my supply have changed?

Two nights ago I tried giving her milk in a bottle to see if it was milk she wanted or my breast but she drank the milk and was still upset. So then I worried that she was still hungry (I didn’t know how much to put in the bottle) so I fed her myself too.

If she used to sleep through the night, she must have been able to settle herself when she stirred so why can’t she do that now? Have I undone it by feeding her in the night during her growth spurt?

I know lots of other babies have never slept through the night and I am lucky we had it for a few months but I am now getting so tired that I am struggling to function in the day. She only naps for 20 or 30 minutes at a time during the and has only just started napping in her cot so I can’t really catch up on sleep then.

Sorry this is such a long post. I have read all the FAQ and lots of other posts but I just can’t seem to work out why our dd can’t sleep through the night any more. I hope someone can help.

[Bex09]

Hi there and hugs for the rough nights. You have quite a lot going on that I think could be contributing to these NWs. First of all if your DD is only short napping in the day she is likely OT, which is probably causing the frequent NW before midnight. Also though if you are feeding her at every NW then it is most likely that you have become a prop that she thinks she needs to fall back to sleep when she wakes.

So, do you want to post you routine in EAS format so that we can see if we can get your DD's DT sleep sorted? Then also I would probably try to not feed until at least 4 hrs after her last feed if she wakes at night. You may need to use PU/PD if you do decide to do this as your DD will protest at not being fed. You can rest assured though that if she can go 4 hrs in the day between feeds, she can at night too so won't be hungry before then. When you do then NF, you could try to leave another 4 hrs before another NF again. Does that make sense?

[bluebell568]

Hi, thanks for your reply, sorry I haven't come back to you. I have a thread going on the Naps board and have been getting some brilliant advice there. This afternoon dd slept for 1.5 hours which is the longest nap she's had for months and the longest ever in her cot. So hopefully if we can continue to make progress with her daytime sleep her night times might get a bit better too.
Last night I followed your advice about not feeding unless it was at least 4 hours since the last feed. I will continue with that tonight. For naps I am working on getting her to go to sleep in her cot rather than being rocked to sleep so hopefully as she gets the hang of it she will also be able to settle in her cot at night rather than nursing to sleep.
I am being very conscious of unlatching her before she is asleep and will continue to do this to help her learn to fall asleep on her own.
Thank you for your help. I'll keep you posted!

[bluebell568]

Hello again. We are making progress with the daytime naps now but I really need some help with the feeding in the night which I definitely think has become a prop. Last night I fed her at 2am (7 hours since bedtime feed) but she woke again at 5.15am. I sent my dh in to settle her knowing that she wouldn't be hungry but she just got more and more hysterical and I ended up feeding her just to calm and settle her and get her back to sleep. I find it really difficult to let her cry so I really hope there is a nice gentle way to help her learn to settle without a feed.

Sorry, should I post this on the Props board?

[bluebell568]

I've just re-read the Gentle Removal Plan from the FAQ which Creations suggested and I had forgotten about. That gives me some good ideas to think about.

[ZacsMumme]

Hi Bluebell,

How you getting on, Bex has been unwell so Im just popping on to see if you still need a hand with the NW and feeds?

[Bex09]

Thanks Sara, I am back! Sorry Bluebell, as Sara said I have been ill. How are things going?

[bluebell568]

Not great I'm afraid. Sorry for not getting back to you - I wasn't ignoring you Sara I just couldn't post from my phone for a while!
I've changed our bedtime routine so I don't now feed Hannah just before bed. She now has her feed, then her bath and a story before going into her cot awake. She settles quite well, sometimes I just sit by her and other times I need to do a bit of shushing or leaning over to keep body contact. It seems to have really helped with the wakings before midnight. She even slept through until 6 am on one night. But most nights she wakes at some point in the early hours and it takes me ages to get her back to sleep. She just seems to be really awake and chatty. On Thursday night she woke at 3.45 and it took me until 5.45 to get her back to sleep. I fed her as it had been a long time since her bedtime feed but even then she wouldn't settle again for ages. Last night she woke at 1:50 and it took me until 3am to get her back to sleep.

We have made good progress with our nap routine so I'm putting her down awake and settling her in her cot rather than rocking her to sleep but she is still only napping for 30 minutes (sometimes less)

Our easy starts off as

7am  Awake and breastfeed
8am  Breakfast
9.30am  Nap  (30 minutes)   I've been trying different A times to see if it gets a longer nap. Today we do a 2hr A time and had a 45 minute nap.
11am Breastfeed

And then I get thoroughly confused. I don't know how much A time to give her because of her short nap. The next nap then seems to need to be at the same time as lunch. She has another breastfeed at 3pm and then I get even more confused (if that's possible) because I don't know when to do the next nap and dinner as they seem to need to be at the same time.

I try to do her last breastfeed at 6.30 and then bath and story and asleep by 7 or 7.15 ish.

Any ideas??

[Bex09]

Hi again, sorry to hear things are not going so well. It is good that DD is starting to be able to settle herself though, that is great progress.

What kind of A time are you doing to BT ATM? I wonder if that last A time is a little short and that is why you are getting the long NW. If she isn't settling after the feed and is happy and chatty rather than fussy and crying I doubt that she is actually hungry, but you will know that best and be able to make that decision.

DD isn't teething or in any other kind of discomfort is she? That can cause unsettled long NW too.

Seeing as you have an active thread in Naps, we will leave the naps issue for now here on NW, just so that you are getting all of your naps advice in one place.

[bluebell568]

Hi Bex,

That's a good point about the A time from last nap until bedtime. Today it was only 1.5 hours. Should I make bedtime later so she has a longer A time? I worry that because she has such short naps and therefore so little daytime sleep that she is getting really tired (and possibly overtired) by bedtime. Actually the one night this week that she slept through until 6.30am was the night I went out and dh put her to bed and she did go later that evening. So maybe I'm trying to put her to bed too early?

[Bex09]

From past experience with my DD I really know how hard it is to get your day sorted with short naps. I seemed to spend forever tweaking A times when C was tiny. Hugs hun, it is so difficult.

I would maybe try to get a longer A time than 1.5 hrs to BT yes, so maybe make BT 15 mins later. I would then stick with this for a few days before adding any more A time on. Adding too much too quickly and swapping and changing A times all the time can lead to OT. I totally know what you mean about worrying about OT because of the short naps, but maybe let your DD's behaviour guide you. Does she show obvious tired or OT signs?