Training my 3 year old to nap on her own

[Tao]

Yes, you are right. We have been doing 6:30 bedtimes each night with no naps. Should I make it even earlier? Do you think eventually her mornings with lengthen out or will it just keep getting earlier and earlier?

[katie80]

Ewwwwe, 4:45??  I'd try 6 pm (even 5:30 if you're brave enough; a wakeup at 5:30 with 12 hrs sleep is better than an EW, I always tell myself) if you just can't get a nap out of her.  Is there any way to force a nap somewhere in the day (preferrably earlier like 12 pm or so) to kick her out of the cycle at all? 

(((Hugs))), Christine, this last nap drop is difficult.

[Tao]

Hi Ladies,

Forgive me if I sound desperate at this moment but I am sitting here on the verge of tears =(. It's 4 a.m. and my DH and I have been up for two hours now (not nursing the new one) but fighting DD1 to go back to bed. Since we last spoke I tried a 6 p.m. BT since no nap and that yielded a 4 a.m. wake up in the morning. DH was able to APOP her back to bed in the a.m. for one more hour. That day I forced a nap since she had such an early wake up by holding her during nap time for a really long time and she actually went down for a nap. However, that is when BT started to act up. She had been going down for BT no problem all this time but after the nap, she fought BT. I had to do WIWO for an hour before she finally went to bed.

The next day I was able to force a nap again after a 5 a.m. wake up. Her nap was a bit late in the day so she woke from it at 2 p.m. I gave her a 7 p.m. BT when she fought again and it took 30 minutes of WIWO this time.

Yesterday, she woke at 5:30, APOP'ed sleep until 6:30 a.m., had no nap, was in bed by 6:30 p.m. again fought BT for 30 minutes, took WIWO to get her to go back. However, she wakes at 2 a.m. When we go in initially she asks for a carry, usually we cuddle her in the chair for a few minutes, put her back in bed and she's good. This is usually the case for NWings or after we put her down for BT and she stands up again etc. However, tonight has been what seems to be a nightmare. After putting her down in bed the power struggle begins. She asks for one more song etc. Now, my DH is just going in there, telling her the same mantra phrase "it's time to lay down and sleep now..." DD1 asks for "one more song" but we just keep repeating the same phrase. After he leaves, however, she jumps out of bed screaming like it's the end of the world and follows him. He puts her back into bed and repeats the same phrase. However, this has been going on for 2.5 hours now. He says it's a power struggle and he's probably right because I went in there and gave in with "one more song" and to no avail she just kept standing asking for one more song. I probably prolonged the whole process for my DH as he is now back in there reverting to his original plan.

I guess part of this is venting, part of it is (I have no idea what I'm doing anymore). I know that this too shall pass but I'm so tired from waking every few hours to nurse DD2, that I really don't need Nwings and BT fights like this too now.

Do you think we are doing the right thing with the way we are doing WIWO? He's planning on doing this until she finally goes to sleep (hopefully her steam will go out). Any new suggestions?

Thank you SO much for listening. DD2 is now crying so I need to go get her but I'm just feeling so down right now...

Hugs to you both,
Christine

[anna*]

Just quickly, but does she have a light or something on a timer so that when she wakes up she can SEE if it is morning or not? How about putting a gate up at her bedroom door? My son, we had to tell him 'YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED to come out of bed until you see the sun showing on your clock. I fyou see the moon that means we are sleeping and you are not allowed to wake us up". Then when he woke up super early, we just ignored him. After a few nights he started to put himself back to sleep.

I'd scrap WIWO, it sounds like it is just too distressing. With my son we stayed out of sight, but periodically just said in a deadpan voice - "it's still night time, go back to bed". Like you, with WIWO he would just scream and grab at our legs. It felt awful.

[katie80]

(((Hugs))) Christine.  You guys must be totally exhausted.  I agree with Anna, use the gro-clock and either a gate or sit in her room like a GW type (after a few nights you could sit outside her room and then just call to her, but like Anna suggested, she's probably old enough to just be called to). But, she needs to learn it's not time to get up until whenever you decide it's morning.  I wouldn't do WIWO at this age either, it really is distressing.  Just keep it consistent, boring, and honest. 

[Tao]

Hi ladies! Thank you so much for your support. It means the world to me. So the past two nights no fighting bed time, which I thought was the end of that but tonight she is standing again after I put her down foe bed. With your advice rather than wiwo and constantly leaving which causes an all out cry, she came out of her room so I put her back in bed and we r sitting right outside her door saying the same boring phrase that it's time to sleep. We didn't have to put a hate because if we r right outside her door yelling in I am noticing that she does not leave her bed. We r not having all out screams which is nice and I am thinking eventually she will get tired and bored right? She is just sitting in bed and repeating her requests but once she is tired enough and falls over to sleep I will just close the door. Can u pls tell me if I am doing this right? Do u think if I repeat this in a few days she will eventually get the idea?

Thx so much again!!

[katie80]

Sounds good to me, Christine. I do think she'll figure out that she just needs to go to sleep, she's not getting anything from you. I'd do the same thing for the EWs using the clock and hopefully she'll start doing better nights for you. Good luck!

[Tao]

Success after 2.5 hours! Man my daughter is strong willed but it was so much less distressful than her running after us. Thank u for that suggestion. Hopefully tomorrow will be less time doing gw and then will finally introduce gro clock. Thanks guys. She will mOst likely be OT from tonight... So we will see how to fix that.

[skatty]

Just popping on to say that I really recommend a much earlier bedtime now she has dropped the nap, my dd went to bed between 5 and 5.30pm for over a year after dropping the nap and slept until 7am, any later and she would wake earlier. If she is having trouble settling after a no nap day then she is probably way past her sleep window. If I were you I would put her to bed earlier and help her fall asleep by sitting by her and stroking her hand, sounds like she is having trouble dropping off on her own which is really common at this age when they have so much going on in their heads, my dd would fall asleep within 5 minues of doing this verses lying away for hours talking to herself  I know it flies in the face of all we have learned about independant sleep but we also want to be there when our kids need us and I just looked at it as a bonding exercise and it is much preferable to sitting outside the door!! It doesn't last forever either, the bedtime routine will change again and she will sleep independantly again 

BTW we also told our dd we would only stay if she closed her eyes and tried to sleep, once her eyes were closed and she was still she would just drop off but it was impossible for her to do this on her own 

[Tao]

Hi Katt,

Thanks for your two sense! During our WD routine I am rubbing her back and it's helping her to wind down better from her active day. This has actually prevented her from standing up again after i leave. I can't completely stay there until she sleeps because she's always been one to have a hard time sleeping when someone is there. Even when she was a baby shush pat wouldn't work on her.

So last week we had a few days of forced naps which worked but it took so long to have her actually go down that it was close to 3 p.m. and that made bedtime part of the struggle I think. This week we are having the same difficulty with naps and haven't been successful in getting her to nap at all so for the past 3 days we've done no naps and super early BT. the first no nap day we had a 6:30 BT which I tihnk was too late because she woke at 5 a.m. rather than her usual 5:30 a.m. wake time. Then, the second day, she woke at 4:45 a.m., hence the earlier and earlier BT as you guys had mentioned.

Yesterday we put her down at 5:45 a.m. which seemed SO crazy early but we did it and she went back to 5 a.m. wake up time. At least it wasn't any earlier.

We introduced the Gro clock which works well for NWings because I've noticed sometimes she'll stand up, look at the clock and lay back down however, we haven't had success with her actually falling back asleep in the mornings. She will however wait  in her room until actually waking up for real.

With the third day of no naps though, I'm really noticing that she is getting more cranky as each no nap day is passing...

1) Is this normal and I just have to ride through it as she gets older and is able to handle this no nap deal?

2) If I do earlier than 5:45 BT, did your LO's get hungry at night from such an early dinner? We are having to feed her like at 4:30 p.m. to do this early BT. Maybe we'll switch bath first and then dinner...

3) Will the built up OT eventually bite me in the bottom (so to speak)? I guess I'll only know if I try...

4) You gals were right this dropping nap business is hard =). I have to be honest though, if she's able to handle it, i love it so much more than fighting naps and the early BT gives DH and I more time to visit.

Is this what everyone else does when their LO's fight naps?

Thanks Ladies, appreciate you SOOO much!

Christine

[katie80]

Christine, sorry I haven't replied.  As we're still in the nap dropping situation, I don't feel like I have great answers for your questions.   How has everything been going as the week went on?