Is this night feed habitual??

[Ima shel Alon]

So gonna do your suggestion of bringing in his A time - would you suggest 1.75hr to start with?

Yes, lets say 1.45-1.50 and see where that brings us.

Are you feeding now twice a night? DF and another feed? I would think that still normal. What you could do is lower the volume of the bottle by an oz every three nights. I wouldn't wean that bottle entirely yet (maybe in a few weeks) - so he will still get a feed, but might take more in the morning. Don't reduce the bottle at once, I think that would be too difficult for him.

[brummum]

ARGH!! we are back to 10:30/11 wake up for feed and 2/2:30 then 5am EW. Soooo shattered.

[Ima shel Alon]

Could it be that something is bothering him, physically I mean?
I am starting to think this 5AM NW is really habitual and maybe it's worth to try W2S. Have a look here for more information: http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=213387.0
(((Hugs))), sweety. It does get better.

[brummum]

I don't think so, he is a happy little fella during the day and doesn't seem in pain. Have tried medicating re: ?teething, ?unwell (had a bit of a runny nose recently) but that doesn't seem to change anything. Last night I decided to control myself and really listen and assess what noises he was making when he woke, the 10:30 wake up was a cry but it was not escalating and seemed more like a tired cry, it was also stopping and starting so decided to leave him (?mantra cry) and after 20 mins he went back to sleep and didn't wake again til 12:30ish when he did the same, then 2:30 when I feed him, then the usual 5am wake up. I'm a bit worried that he seemed to wake up every couple of hours as isn't this usually the pattern when they have a prop issue?? However, we weaned the dummy weeks ago and he falls asleep independently for naps and night time or at the most with a bit of patssh. We are very aware of putting him down awake.
The W2S thing is tricky as if he wakes at 2:30 for a feed which usually lasts 45mins with preping bottle, change then feed and he sometimes takes a little while to settle back to sleep I would be doing the W2S when he has only just gone back to sleep. What do you suggest? Would it still work if I did it half an hour before instead of an hour? say half 4??

[Ima shel Alon]

That's great that you waited a bit, it does sound like he was mantra crying and it's so so important to to interfere with it, because it teaches them self soothing. WTG, mommy, I know it's not easy to stay and wait.
I don't think waking up frequently (which I don't think he is) at night has to do with a prop, it could be OT or hunger, it can be many things.
I am a bit lost here with the 2:30 feed - why does it take you 1.5h till he is asleep again? Have you tried preparing a bottle of cooled boiled water and just add the powder when he wakes up? Are you changing a nappy after the feed? I would keep that feed as low key as possible. IIWY I would change the nappy first, then feed in his room, in darkness and pop him straight back to bed when bottle is finished. Should take around 20-25min tops. What do you think?

[brummum]

sorry I should explain, we change before this feed as we have had quite a few occassions during the run of early wakings where he has been wet (despite using night time 12+hr nappies!!) and didn't know whether this was contributing to the EW so decided to start changing at this feed to prevent that which has worked in terms of keeping him dry but not the EW. The feed itself takes approx 20-30min then I wind him thoroughly as we used to have alot of trouble with him getting uncomfortable with wind (wondering if I can start to be a bit more relaxed about this actually now that he is a little older?), so all in all thats about 45min then sometimes he chunters for half hr or so before falling properly asleep (sometimes he's straight back of to sleep though it varies). Does that make sense? I do feed him in his room but use a low night light due to having to prepare the bottle and change him.
Last night he woke at 11 for a feed, 3:30 for a feed (kept this to 5oz although some nights he won't have a bar of that and insists on the 7!) and then 5am again but settled himself before we actually got to him so hoping that wasn't a one off!
Please don't get me wrong, I am happy to feed him during the night and I just get a bit stressed about responding appropriately to him during the night so that when he's ready to sleep through he is able to and tbh I'm worried about over feeding him (he has 6 7oz bottles over a 24hr period).
Will see what happens tonight! Thank you so much for your thoughts and support I know others are having a much rougher time than me, I just want to enable him to be an good independant sleeper and obviously as a first time mom I worry about everything!! 

[Ima shel Alon]

Sweety, it sounds to me like you are doing great in giving him good tools to be an independent sleeper.
He will STTN, it might take him a little longer, but he will. It sounds like he *is* hungry if he is insisting on 7oz at night. With time you will be able to reduce this bottle slowly.
Alon was always a greater feeder than what all charts said (even what Tracey wrote), so I went to my ped. for some reassurance, and maybe you could do the same, just to get a peace of mind, yk?

[brummum]

Had him weighed today and health visitor doesn't seem concerned even though he is now 90th centile (was born on 50th!). Just going to try not to worry so much! It just a bit annoying that he insists on a full bottle in the early hours and then flaffs about with his first feed of the day! Oh well, they haven't read the manual have they?!

[Ima shel Alon]

If it's makes you feel any better, we (and I see so many mommies here) also had the same and it does go away. If he takes a full feed and keeps on sleeping a bit, just keep offering the morning feed and within time I believe they will combine into one