how to know if BF alone is enough for a big baby - 5 months 1 week

[Tommys Mommy]

Okay, I know this is a common topic, but in the last two weeks, LO has completely bucked his EASY.  Naps are a disaster, the nights are terrible.  I've started suspecting it might be a growth spurt or he might be ready to drop the evening CN (sadly his EASY was pretty textbook, though his nights have always been up and down).  He stayed up from 245 yesterday until 730.  WHAT?

So I'm not against supplementing with formula (though I have fiercely held off until now, something just needs to change).  I really wonder if he's just HUNGRY bc of all the waking.  At work, I pump 3 times in the day and produce 12 ounces.  Sometimes, rarely, I might make up to 6 oz in a single session if I'm kind of bursting and it's been 4 hours since the morning feed.  He gets 2 6 oz bottles while I'm away during the day so I pump 3 times for 2 bottles.  I'm at the point where I'm okay to add a bit of formula into those bottles to make sure he's getting enough. 

At one point when he was about 4 months old, he was actually taking 3 6 oz bottles during the day, which I was having to pump at night to maintain.  It was exhausting.  I had a 10 day break with him where he was only on the breast and since after that I continued to make 4 oz at each pump, I decided the nanny was overfeeding him (so I dropped those three bottles to 5 oz), but now I'm wondering.  we transitioned to the 4 hour EASY, bumped up the bottles to 6 oz again, and he did great for a week and then everything has gone to pot. 

My 2nd question is what to do on the weekends when I'm with him.  I LOVE breastfeeding.  Especially since I work, I really need that time with him, doing something no one else can do for him!  But it seems like I need to drop to a 3 hour EASY on the weekends to make sure he's getting enough.  And if I start supplementing...well I just offer him a bottle of formula after the BF right?  (we did try that the other night, 2 oz formula + 1 oz EBM and he was not into it...he's a gourmet, I get it). 

Sorry this is so rambling.  I hope you can follow.  Thanks so much. 

[Erin M]

First off, my ds had a huge gs at 5 months so it's definitely a possibility. 

Needing to drop that cn is also a possibility -- what does your EASY look like right now? 

You would offer the formula after the bf, you're right about that -- is he a double sided feeder right now?  If he is, you can try going back the first side (if he'll take it) taster the second -- which might not get him a whole lot, but will certainly boost your supply.   I'd try that on the weekends -- with all the pumping you're doing your supply should be ok to stick with the 4 hour routine then too -- is he acting like he can go that long between nursings on the weekends or does something make you thnk he's not getting enough?  Are you going lots of good wet diapers?  Growth ok and all that? 

You sound like you're doing great - working and pumping isn't easy at all!

[Chicane]

We had a GS around the same time too. I think if you've had a good EASY until now then its quite possible that the routine needs a tweak. I also agree with Erin about offering the first breast again.

Is he showing any interest in food? Just to throw that thought out there too because if you do have a suspicion that he is hungry then you should take notice of that - mummy wisdom is almost always right! - Does he watch you eat, try to grab food, does he look like he might be ready? I know the recommendation is 6 months but he's almost there and each baby is different. While my DS didn't take to solids until 12 months my friend's baby was chomping at the bit to get started at 4 months. If you think he is ready for solids, if you think he is showing signs of wanting to try food, you could start to play around with that for a bit, take it slowly, no pressure on either of you and see what happens. If that is what it is then its possible that you can avoid formula altogether if you want to...but first I would do a routine tweak to see if that's whats making these changes.

[Tommys Mommy]

Hey everyone!

I thought I'd give a week or so and see what happened with the solids.  So we introduced solids and he took to them very very well!  We started about 2.5 weeks ago and he's up to 2 solid meals per day, lunch and dinner.  And last night he slept very well, down around 7, DF at 1030, didn't hear him again until 330, then he was up a few times before W/U at 645 (vast improvement!). 

We also upped his day bottles to 7 oz (supplemented with formula in the end).  Last weekend I tried giving 2 oz formula after the BF and he took it!  I was amazed...he never had pure formula before but he didn't refuse...so he must have been hungry.    I feel it's really the solids that have made a huge difference.  Have had a few issues with a touch of constipation, so we're being careful to keep the fruits going in.

Our easy today:

E 645 (BF both sides, I'm very full in the morning)
A 7-9 (2 hr)
S 9-1035 (1.5 hr)
A 1035-11
E 11 (7 oz)
A 1130-1 (2.5 hr inc time before E)
S 1-230 (1.5 hr)
E 250 (oatmeal & banana)
A 300-330
E 330 (7 oz)
A 345-5 (2 hr)
S 5-545 (45 min)
A 545-615
E 615 (oatmeal & sweet potato)
A 630-715
E 715 BF both sides
S 745
DF btw 10-11

So...I am wondering how to manage the feeds better.  I have to rely on the nanny during the day, who is PRETTY good at taking direction from me, but she keeps wanting to give him his solids and his bottles together.  I keep telling her to stagger them, but then we had the solids RIGHT BEFORE a bottle today.  I came home around the end of the bottle and he had a big big spit up.  He was actually refusing the end of the bottle (unheard of for this hungry boy).  I didn't figure it out til I looked at the schedule. 

My question is how to tweak the solids and bottles so that he isn't getting the meals on top of each other.  He is hungry, like I said.  Last night at dinner, he had 2.5 oz of sweet potatoes, 2.5 ounces of carrots AND probably 2-3 ounces of oatmeal on top (he does eat rice cereal too, we just started the oatmeal though so I think he's having it with every meal because we are excited to have a different grain).  I was a little nervous about feeding him so much but he opened his mouth every time...even getting impatient!  He's a big kid, and he did just go through a growth spurt, but I'm not going to overfeed him right?  I definitely want him to continue sleeping this well, but it seems like I'm feeding him all the time (and not paying attention to any of his hunger cues, though he NEVER refuses solids or bottle).  I've kept to the 4 hr feeds with the milk...I'm very open to suggestions on where to tweak things.

Also, now that he seems to be doing so well on the solids, can I drop back down to 6 oz pure breast milk in the bottles during the day?  Should I not?  I just...don't like smelling formula on him.  :s  I can get used to it if this is the way it needs to be BUT I guess...I was under the assumption that he shouldn't really need more than I can make.  I don't think my production has revved up that much.  But...I guess I can't argue with a baby who is now sleeping and previously wasn't really. 

One other thing.  DS is 5.5 months and lately my breasts don't feel...so full.  They seem soft.  In the mornings they definitely feel really full, but I just don't feel like they have as much in there (this morning I pumped 5 oz and they didn't feel that full).  I guess, is this a normal thing to happen to the breasts after you've been breastfeeding this long? 

Thanks so much!

[Chicane]

 Hi love - wow hungry boy! I am not so good at figuring out routines and solids (because DS didn't eat until he was 12 months  so hopefully someone else can comment on that.

But I can try to answer a few other questions...first up I figured out once DS did start eating solids that he needed to eat every 2 hours still. He is now a big eater and still at age 2.5 needs to have something every 2 hours more or less. I think as you continue you will figure out what his limit is between eating. I guess the key here is to watch for his signs and cues - if he is turning his head away then he's had enough. Its easy to slip into the mode of wanting to get more into them when they are eating (guilty of that) but they know their bodies and we really have to respect that. I was worried about over feeding too because once DS started to eat he was really going for it. My doc told me that babies won't eat for emotional support - meaning they don't eat their feelings like adults do and will always let you know when they are hungry and when they have had enough as long as you listen to them. So, basically I think at this age if he's hungry let him eat until he is full...kwim? The key here is to make sure his diet is a healthy mix of good fats, fibre and proteins...no sugars or processed foods if you can help it.

As far as breasts not feeling full - I think this is pretty normal and I was told that its not an indication of production at all. In fact, I remember that as time went on I was still producing good amounts of milk but no longer got that full feeling, even in the morning. The type of milk changes in its composition as the baby grows (how clever is that!) perhaps thats what makes the difference, not sure, but I don't think its anything to worry about. As far as not wanting him on formula you could try pumping a bit more over a few days and see if you can increase supply and therefore keep a stock of BM for the nanny to use in the day?  Or you could try a different formula to find one you like - there are some very good organic ones on the market these days - and you may feel better about it if you have more respect for the brand, kwim?

Hope this helps a bit! SO happy that things have improved for you both

xo