Author Topic: 14 week old - Suddenly having many NW (recently transitioned to 3.5 hour easy)  (Read 1576 times)

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Offline masonsma

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Hello everyone.  I am in deperate need of some help for my son.  I am new the the board but I have read the books and have been spending time reading past posts to see if I can glean any help that way.  I listed answers below to all of the questions in the "read first" section.  I hope this helps.  Here is our issue....

My son is 14 weeks old.  He was on 3 Hour EASY until 12 weeks.  On the 3 hour EASY, he was doing well at night.  Would get a DF and have 2 night feedings (usually around 1/2 and 4/5).  Then, at 12 weeks, we switched him to 3.5 Hour EASY.  At first, the 3.5 Hour EASY seemed to be good for us.  We would still do a DF at the normal time and have one NW at around 2/3 am for a feeding.  Would go back down well. We usually would not have any other NW in between, and if so, he would settle quickly.

This worked okay at first, but slowly every day things have gone downhill and now we have a crazy amount of NW.   This is the current situation.... Still on 3.5 hour EASY. He will go down okay for bedtime.  However, for the dreamfeed, he seems to be getting more alert around the time of the DF.  Previously, he would be dead asleep.  Now sometimes he is even awake before we can get to him with the bottle.  He will still take the DF okay most times and go back to sleep.  However, then he will wake at almost every hour thereafter, and need settling.  This is until a night feeding around 2/3.  He will go back down well, but then need settling about an hour later.  Sometimes he will then be fine until the morning, but other times he will resume the NW about every hour until he wakes up.

I can't put my finger on what is 'wrong' and how to get him on track.  My suspicions are - I went back to work at 12 weeks (two weeks ago), and this is around when the problems started.  I EBF, but now he is home with dad and is getting bottle during the day.  He seems a lot more gassy (gas has been an issue for him always).  Additionally, around 12 weeks, we moved him to 3.5 hour EASY (from 3 hour easy).  The reason is that he started to eat more poorly during the day and seemed to not be hungry enough at 3.0 hours.  He showed other signs of needing the transistion too (more active, etc.).  I feel like the 3.5 hr schedule suites him pretty well.  However, naps are still a bit of a challenge.  He is sleeping better for his naps, but not great, and this is potentially the problem.  Another issue that came up around week 12 was that he was not hungry in the morning and feeding him upon wake up would be a royal battle. He'd be happy, playful, but want NO FOOD at all.  At this time we switched to 3.5 hour easy and reduced night feedings from 2 feeding to 1 feeding.  This seemed to help the issue a little, but not totally.  There are many mornings where he just does not want to eat (breast or bottle).  Including today. 

I am at the end of my rope and really need help. My husband and I are totally stumped on how to get the little guy back to a happy place.  To make matters worse, next week is his last week at home with us.  Then, he will be going to daycare full time.  I am afraid if we don't take drastic measures to fix this, we will be in a real mess come time for daycare. 

I really really appreciate any wisdom or help to get us through this.  Thank you for reading.

How old is your child? - 14 weeks old
What’s his/her daily routine? - 3.5 Hour Easy.  We put him down sometime between 7:00 and 7:30; wakes at around 7:00 am each day
What’s nap routine? - He goes down pretty well when he is on schedule, and naps good for the first 45 minutes.  Usually has to be shushed back to sleep with paci to get the next 45 minutes.  This is more successful for earlier naps in the day and it is harder at the end of the day.  For naps we swaddle and either put in swing or crib.  He does not seem to do better/worse in either the crib or the swing.
How long are naps? see above
What's bedtime routine? Time? - We have a consistant routine.  Go to room, turn down lights, rock, change diaper and into jammies, put on white noise machine (it has a 45 minute timer), breastfeed, to bed.
Do you bottle or breastfed?? - Breastfeed.  However, now that I am back at work (went back at 12 weeks), he gets bottle fed breastmilk during the day.  For bottles, it ranges from 3-4 onces.  I nurse for the bedtime feed and the night feed.
How much? or how long? - He usually feeds for 10-15 minutes
If breastfed.. one side or both?? (at each feed) - One side per feeding.  It has been this way since he was about 3 weeks.
How many wakes per night? - This is the tough part - I need help!!!! Used to go down at 7:00, Dreamfeed at 10:00/10:30, and would go to about 2:00 +/- and wake for breastfeed, back down to the morning (wake around 7:00).  Now this has all changed!  He will be fine until dreamfeed, but now has started getting more "awake" around the time of the feeding instead of being in a deep sleep.  He will still take the DF okay, even if more awake.  However, now he will be up fussing at 12:00, 1:00, 2:00, etc. (about every hour), until I breastfeed.  Then he will go back down okay, but get up maybe an hour hour the night feeding and need shussing and paci.  This will be at least once, but now increasing more after the night feed.
What’s your LO like when waking at night? How long is he/she up? - When waking at night, he will be up for 5 minutes or so before going back down.
When you go to him/her is she fussing or crying? Or is it a mantra cry? - Sometimes fussing, sometimes crying.  We try to wait him out if he is just fussing, as we know he USED to be able to put himself back to sleep.  Now he is not doing it so well, so the fussing escalates to crying. After a few minutes of crying, we go in to settle him.
What have you tried to settle?? - Yes.  To settle him, we leave him in the crib but put our hands on his chest/legs with firm pressure and give him the paci.  We shush him if needed.  It is very rare that we need to pick him out of the crib to calm him.  It seems he is mostly uncomfortable from gas.
What do you do for A time and how long is it? - We are on 3.5 hour EASY, so activity time is about 1.45 minutes.  We transistitioned to this about 2 weeks ago.  Prior to this, he was on 3.0 EASY
Are there developmental issues such as teething or milestones? - I don't think so. 
Have you introduced cereal? Why, how much, and how many times a day? (for LO’s under 6 months) - No, EBM (either breast or bottle).
Do they have a prop? If so what is it? - I hope its not me!  No props that I can think of.  He uses the paci, but I don't think he is dependent upon it.  He will go down for some naps and his initial bedtime without it.
Do they have a lovie? - No

Offline katie80

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Hi there and welcome to BW! :)  Thanks so much for providing all that information, it is very helpful to see.

I think your suspicions are both probably right on track.  You going back to work was a big change for him and that can definitely lead to more waking at night.  The fact that he is unsettled until he is fed could be either a growth spurt or just wanting to be close to you since you're gone more during the day.  This same thing happened to a good friend of mine when she went back to work and I think it did settle down after a while. 

It definitely sounds like he was probably ready to make the switch to a 3.5 hr EASY, but if he's not getting full naps that can lead to some of the unsettledness in the night as well (esp what you're describing around the DF time and in the middle of the night).  You've already written so much out, but would you be willing to also write out your EASY in EAS format so I can take a peak as well.  There may be something we can tweak to help those wakings.  Has his bedtime routine changed since you've gone back to work?

This is what I mean:
E 7 am BF
A
S 8:45 am - 10:15 am
E 10:30 am BF
etc, etc

The unsettledness could also be from gas discomfort.  Now that he is taking bottles during the day, he may well be swallowing more air.  Lots of bicycles during diaper changes, tummy massages at bathtime, good burps each feeding and trying again before going down to sleep can all help with that.  Also, when you lay him down, if he needs help settling you can turn him to his side and settle with shh/pat or just a firm hand on the legs/arms.  This position helps air to come out rather than being trapped as when he's on his back.  Once he's settled to sleep you can just roll him back onto his back.

One last thing... both my kids started nursing from both sides at about 3-4 mo.  It could be that he needs a bit more now that he's on a 3.5 hr EASY.  Do you ever offer the other side and he's just not interested or is he always satisfied after the one?  You could also feed him on one side, change him, burp him, give him about 10 min and then try feeding on the other to see if he wants some more.



Offline becj86

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put on white noise machine (it has a 45 minute timer)
Do you have the white noise on for naps too? If so, I'd ditch the timer because just as he needs the white noise there to help him transition, it turns off!

He will still take the DF okay, even if more awake.  However, now he will be up fussing at 12:00, 1:00, 2:00, etc. (about every hour),
My DS did this with the DF and it was gas discomfort. We ditched the DF and ended up with just the one NF anyway (lucky us) but I'd have been happy with two NF's if he slept in between them :P You could try putting the mattress on an incline so the air goes up and out instead of making its way through the gut and causing pain further down, or burping him after the DF.

I agree with all Katie has said and would like to add that if the waking is related to you being at work, you could try doing the DF straight from the breast rather than bottle of EBM and see if that helps. It may help because he takes in less gas or because he's getting his mummy-fix, but either way you may get more sleep :)

Offline masonsma

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One last thing... both my kids started nursing from both sides at about 3-4 mo.  It could be that he needs a bit more now that he's on a 3.5 hr EASY.  Do you ever offer the other side and he's just not interested or is he always satisfied after the one?  You could also feed him on one side, change him, burp him, give him about 10 min and then try feeding on the other to see if he wants some more.

Thank you so much for your help!  We are really struggling.  I am at work now, but will post the last two days schedule when I get home.  It is funny you mention that maybe he would want to take both breasts at his feedings now.  This weekend, this actually happened at 3 feedings, including once for a bed time feeding, so I have been wondering if that might be part of the "problem".  I am going to be more persistent in offering the second breast now.   After watching him closely the past few nights, I do feel like the late moring wakings (4-7 am), are due to gas discomfort - but not the burping kind, the farting kind.  I hate to totally wake him to burp him for the NF, but I am going to try it for the next few nights and report back if that helps or not.   I am willing to try anthing!  I also have eliminated mik from my diet for the last two days.  I will see if that helps, or at least eliminates milk allergy as a possible problem.  Since he has always been gassy, I really wonder if it is my diet :-(

Offline masonsma

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Do you have the white noise on for naps too? If so, I'd ditch the timer because just as he needs the white noise there to help him transition, it turns off!

No, we don't use the white noise for naps.  I thought about using it, but since he is going to daycare and can't use it there, I decided against it.  I thought it might become a prop that I couldn't carry forward to daycare.  I am actually quite nervous about daycare and naps - I feel that probably won't put in the same amound of effort into extending his naps as we do.  Any thoughts/suggestions?

Offline masonsma

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put on white noise machine (it has a 45 minute timer)
Do you have the white noise on for naps too? If so, I'd ditch the timer because just as he needs the white noise there to help him transition, it turns off!

He will still take the DF okay, even if more awake.  However, now he will be up fussing at 12:00, 1:00, 2:00, etc. (about every hour),
My DS did this with the DF and it was gas discomfort. We ditched the DF and ended up with just the one NF anyway (lucky us) but I'd have been happy with two NF's if he slept in between them :P You could try putting the mattress on an incline so the air goes up and out instead of making its way through the gut and causing pain further down, or burping him after the DF.

I agree with all Katie has said and would like to add that if the waking is related to you being at work, you could try doing the DF straight from the breast rather than bottle of EBM and see if that helps. It may help because he takes in less gas or because he's getting his mummy-fix, but either way you may get more sleep :)

Thank you for this suggestion - I have been debating dropping the DF for a few nights, just to see what happens and if it helps at all.  Would you suggest trying to DF by breast first, or just go straight to dropping the DF as an experiment?

Offline katie80

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(((Hugs))), trialling dairy free and going back to work all within two weeks is a lot on top of the NWs! The dairy trial will definitely be worth it, though if it helps with the gas.

I hate to totally wake him to burp him for the NF, but I am going to try it for the next few nights and report back if that helps or not.   
FWIW, neither of mine have totally woken from being burped at a NF. When they're little, I just hold them up on my shoulder and rub their back a bit and it just comes up. I think maybe because they're so relaxed, it's easier. :-\ When they get bigger, I just gently sit them up on my lap, leaning against me because they're pretty much sleeping and rub their back again. It works well for me.

I can't speak to the day are issue, but I do believe Bec has some experience.

As for the DF, I'd keep it and breast feed, just for the sole purpose of the cuddles right now. Because the increased NWs coincided with you going back, I think it's worth it to see if that doesn't help. You can always reassess later down the road. I will say I'm a bit biased toward the DF, because I like that cuddle time. It definitely doesn't work for all babies, though.




Offline becj86

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I thought about using it, but since he is going to daycare and can't use it there, I decided against it.  I thought it might become a prop that I couldn't carry forward to daycare.  I am actually quite nervous about daycare and naps - I feel that probably won't put in the same amound of effort into extending his naps as we do.  Any thoughts/suggestions?
Most day cares actually have white noise/music on in the cot room to drown out the noise of the other kids playing - maybe you could find out what your day care does so you can get him used to it...

I would try to breastfeed the DF - agree with Katie, he may just want some nice cuddle time ;)



After watching him closely the past few nights, I do feel like the late moring wakings (4-7 am), are due to gas discomfort - but not the burping kind, the farting kind.  I hate to totally wake him to burp him for the NF, but I am going to try it for the next few nights and report back if that helps or not.
The gassiness - once I got DS burped well, he didn't fart nearly as much. I was told to stop dairy but discovered that block feeding and getting a better balance (more fat into his feeds) helped DS' issues before I even got to eliminating dairy which would be a massive change in my diet. If your letdown is fast or you have an oversupply (even if its just in the middle of the night when you're engorged) you could try leaning back to feed so the milk is going against gravity which will help LO to take in less air while feeding.