When do I stop PU/PD for my 6.5mo old naps?

[carmenalecia]

My first post on this forum. So many questions - I've reviewed my BW book again and again. Therefore, I'm glad there is a forum to get more information and exchange info with others.

We started E.A.S.Y. a couple of weeks ago and it is going pretty well so far (hope that didn't jinx us to admit  ) This is the first time our DD has ever had a schedule and she is 6.5 months old. We have seen great progress with her sleeping - she is often getting a good longer nap each day (sometimes it's in the morning, sometimes in the afternoon), and she has even slept right through the night once last week! Major progress!

In any case, the reason I'm posting is that I'm wondering what to do about her shorter naps. When she does wake from a nap (usually her afternoon ones) after 40 or 50 minutes, I have been spending the rest of her nap time (between 1 hour and 10 minutes/20 minutes) doing PU/PD to try to get her back to sleep. I should mention that she has started standing in her crib in the last 2 weeks, is teething, and also started solids a couple weeks ago, and is really constipated right now. A lot of factors affecting sleep for my LO.

So my question is: at what point do I stop doing PU/PD during nap time and just realize that she is really awake and take her out of her room? I have been trying to rigidly adhere to the 4 hour schedule so if she is to nap between 9am and 11am, I have been doing PU/PD right until 10:59. And if, after a shorter nap, she seems awake and it's OK to get her up, do I do some activity with her and wait until 11am to feed her? Or feed her right after she gets up?

I look forward to some responses. Thanks!

[jessmum46]

Hi, I wonder if you might need some adjustments to the routine you're trying?  You are right that Tracy does say to stick rigidly to the routine when starting out, but myself (and others) have found that the A times in the 4h EASY are too short for LOs who are much over 4 months so LO can't take a longer nap because they aren't tired enough.  No amount of PUPD will get them back to sleep if they simply aren't tired.  For a 6.5mo, you're looking at an average 2.5-3h A time and heading towards a "4+ hour" EASY as LO drops from 3 to 2 naps per day.

To answer your questions - I would spend a maximum of 20 mins trying to resettle a short nap, and then get LO up for some A time before the next feed.  You may need to bring the next nap/BT earlier after a short nap (i.e. shorter A time) to prevent LO becoming OT.  It's fine to do an AEAS pattern to fit around short naps.

Do you want to post a couple of days in EAS format so we can have a look at adjusting the routine for you to something more appropriate for your LOs age?

[carmenalecia]

Thanks for the fast reply, Katherine. Here's what a typical day looks like for us right now:

Wake at 7am (I can usually hear her in her crib between 6:30 and 7, but I go in for her at 7)
E (nurse) @ 7
A until 8:45 (usually takes between 10 and 20 minutes to get her down)
S from 9 to 11 (if we're lucky but usually naps of 1.25 to 1.5 hours are the norm)
E (nurse) @ 11 (solids between 11 and 12)
A until 12:45
S from 1 to 3 (again, if we're lucky but usually more like 45 minutes in the afternoon)
E (nurse) @ 3 (solids between 3 and 3:30)
A until 5
S (catnap) between 5 and 6
E sometimes give solids between 6 and 7 if she is hungry
A until 7
E (nurse) @ 7
A until bed at 7:30
S between 7:30 and 8

Other notes: DD has always tended to fall asleep in the car if I'm out running around, but I've been trying to keep her awake if we are out and it's not in a 'window' of sleep opportunity (ie: between 9 and 11, 1 and 3, 5 and 6). She goes down really easily for her 9am nap, as well as to sleep at night. I struggle with getting her down for her 1pm nap. I wonder how much her constipation from starting solids, as well as teething is affecting all of this. Especially because we started EASY at the same time as all of this? Any suggestions on what to adjust are welcome. We are really starting to understand her needs for a schedule better, and read her cues better. Like I said, progress has been good, but still looking for regularity/consistency.

[jessmum46]

Constipation and teething can be a pain and can both affect sleep.  Have you tried medicating for the teeth?

I think UT is probably part of your issue here.  I'd probably suggest that you push out your first A time to start with by 10-15 minutes.  She may be taking 10-20 mins to go down because she isn't actually tired enough to want to sleep, and then not sleeping a full nap.  You may find she goes down much quicker with a longer A time. 

The 45 mins in the pm is probably UT again - the nap in the morning, although not a 'full' nap, is probably long enough for her to manage an almost full A time afterwards.  If you get a good morning nap, I would think you could add 10-15 mins to your second A time too.  Ideally you want to be moving towards 2 naps and dropping the catnap, although it needs to be done gradually by increasing the A time in small increments until you reach around 3h.  Your second nap will then finish later in the afternoon, and you can bring BT earlier instead of doing the CN until LO gets used to having 2 naps. 

Does that make sense?  LOs have some huge jumps in A time around 5-6 months and it can be a difficult job keeping up with them!!

[carmenalecia]

Thanks - I will try your suggestions. Just one clarification though - do you count A time from the moment they wake up, or from after their feeding? Otherwise, this all makes sense to me. I give her some baby Tylenol occasionally if her teeth seem to really be bothering her, but truthfully, it is the constipation that is really bothersome right now. She has been waking a couple more times in the night for the last couple nights, and it's really difficult to make her comfortable enough to get back to sleep easily. Once she does get back to sleep, I feel terrible going in at 7 and waking her up for the day. Regardless, she seems to be doing well with the schedule (mostly) and it has been an interesting (and somewhat exhausting, but getting better) process for us.

[carmenalecia]

One more question - since DD does like to nap in the car when we are out, should I encourage or discourage this (as in, wake her up when I see her drifting off)? Will this interfere with her overall sleep schedule since these naps occur during her A time? Or is she napping because she really needs the sleep?

[jessmum46]

A time is eyes open to eyes closed - so includes feeding

What kind of solids is she on?  Does she drink water with her meals?  Try plenty of P foods to help with the constipation - pears, prunes, peaches, peas....., can also add an oz of pear or prune juice to her water if she'll drink it.

Napping in the car is a common problem - if she's very prone to it, then perhaps time your outings so that she's either just woken up (so less likely to drop off again), or is due a nap so it won't matter so much if she goes to sleep.  If she naps during what is meant to be her A time, it will probably mean she won't go down for her nap at the normal time.

[carmenalecia]

Solids that she is/was on (I've stopped everything other than pears and prune juice until she has a proper BM) - butternut squash, zucchini, pears, bananas, brown rice cereal. She has a sippy cup that we are trying to teach her to use, but she mostly just bites the nipple and plays with it.

[carmenalecia]

Napping in the car is a common problem - if she's very prone to it, then perhaps time your outings so that she's either just woken up (so less likely to drop off again), or is due a nap so it won't matter so much if she goes to sleep.  If she naps during what is meant to be her A time, it will probably mean she won't go down for her nap at the normal time.

So today, we had to go to the doctor during what is usually her afternoon nap. She slept for about 15 minutes on the way there, and about the same on the way home. By the time we got home, it was past her regular sleep time and time to nurse. Should I have fed her and then tried to put her down for another nap? Instead, I fed her and my husband took her out for a walk. She didn't sleep in the stroller. By the time they got back she was fussing - now OT, I think. So, I nursed her about an hour earlier than I normally would, we bathed her, and put her down. She was sleeping about 1/2 hour or 45 minutes before her normal schedule. Is this the right approach? Or should I have forced a nap?

[jessmum46]

It sounds like you did exactly the right thing following her cues and getting her down early for BT.  Remember EASY isn't a schedule - it's not about having things happen at exactly the same time every day, rather responding to your LOs needs