Getting bedtime right?

[Straffles]

LO has always settled well at BT. Now 8MO, we are at the point where the pm nap is being refused or capped and cannot work out an appropriate AT to BT.

Last night it took from 7pm to 8pm! to get him to settle and was very distressing.

He had taken a 45 min capped nap til 4pm, so 3HRS to BT would seem fair given his average AT during daytime of 3HRS 35. Also given that the previous day I had overshot and gone for a 3 1/2 HR AT after 45 min nap which had caused OT and NW at 8.30pm

I just don't knwo when to put him to bed anymore. Please help.

[Erin M]

Hi hun, can you post the rest of your day so we can see when your other naps, A times, etc fall?

Thanks!

[Straffles]

Sure, thanks Erin.

The thing is, our days are a mess - all naps have gone to pot.

Yesterday went like this:

WU: 7am
E: 7am
A: 3HR 35min
S: 10.35 - nap refused, APOP by 11.12, sleep til 12.50
E: 12.50
A: 3HR 35
S: 4.25 - nap refused, got him up after 15/20mins
E: 4.45
A: 2HR 05
S: EBT @ 6.30 - BT refused, loud mantra cry til 7.06pm
NW: 4.39 (bf)
WU: 7am

Before this we've had a range of scenarios where the pm nap is either refused or has to be capped. On a 30 minute capped nap, we've been trying around 2HR 30 AT to BT. On a 45 minute nap, we've been trying around 3HR to BT. Sometimes those times work, other times they fail miserably.

Please help us to get back on track.

[Erin M]

OK, did he drop the CN early?  He's on the high end of A times for his age it seems, has he always been this way?  Working on any new skills/teeth right now?  And does he generally sleep well at night?  (Sorry, annoying questions, trying to see what's going on here!)

E: 7am
A: 3HR 35min
S: 10.35 - nap refused, APOP by 11.12, sleep til 12.50

Despite a long A time, this seems like he was UT at 10:35.  What did you end up doing to get him to sleep?

Clearly, he's too little to make the jump to one nap, but I'm wondering if you need to maybe cap the AM nap at something on the shorter end (maybe start with 45 minutes and work your way down) and then adjust your second A time accordingly -- though you say this:

On a 30 minute capped nap, we've been trying around 2HR 30 AT to BT. On a 45 minute nap, we've been trying around 3HR to BT. Sometimes those times work, other times they fail miserably.

which makes me think twice about advising that. 

Is there a reason that you're capping the second nap instead of the first?  With my dd1, she would always refuse the second nap if she had a first one of any decent length, so I started doing the AM one totally APOP'ed (generally in the car or stroller) which resulted in a pretty short nap (20-30 minutes) which was just long enough to get us to the second nap (somewhere around 3 hours later) and a pretty long A time to bed.  All of my kids have done well with the long A to bed, but I know it doesn't work for everyone. 

And of course, there's always the chance that this is all teething or developmentally related.
What do you think?

[Straffles]

Thanks for your reply Erin

Answers to your questions:

Did he drop the catnap early? I'm not sure; I only really got him on a routine by 3 1/2 - 4 months (don't have much memory of that time) and remember always struggling to get him to have a cat nap at all as he could do 4 hours in 2 naps. I would drive for hours just for a 5 minute catnap...

He hasn't been LSN no. When I started extending his ATs about two months ago, people were all saying how LOVE his ATs were (just up to 2 hrs at 6 months). But they've been extending and extending week by week until we are suddenly this high. The only reason I can think of is that he is not at all mobile yet, just sitting for the first time about a week or two ago.

Night sleep has been good the last month or so. He usually does one or two NWs and back to sleep feed and easy settle. When teething he started wakign again 4 times a night. He has slept 10 and 11 hours at a stretch recently too!!

I wouldn't cap the first nap because it is easier to get than the second. From my records, we've been struggling with the pm nap for weeks and it's always been harder for him to settle for for months. So I like to bank the sleep, although the last couple of days the morning nap has been looking shaky too ugh.

He has always settled so beautifully at BT and it's sad that it's such a mess now. I really don't know when to put him down. Today he did a 45 minute capped nap in the pm, til 4.20, so I thought he'd need til 7.20 BT but he was crying at 6.45. This is unheard of! Last time he did a 45 minute capped nap, he didn't seem tired enough until 3HRS 15 AT to BT. I'm foxed!

My only APOP is a bf unfortunately, and that doesn't often work. Car, pram, these things don't work. LO learnt to self settle early on and does it beautifully if only I can work out when he needs to go to sleep!

[Erin M]

OK, that all makes sense to me, especially the part about banking the sleep and getting the good nap early in the day.  I'd do that too if need be.  If seems like, for the time being with his mobility being where it is, he's needing longer A times.  I might cut that second nap back some, maybe to 30 minutes, and try something like 3 hours A time (though I'm totally just guessing here) and see where it gets you.  And it could also be something like teeth or separation anxiety that's causing the BT troubles (just to throw something completely different in there)!