Me Again - forgive my repetitiveness but I need help...

[Mattsmummy]

Ok.  I guess I'm in for some terribly OT days then?
For the morning, should I just get him up when he gets up at 5:15ish or leave him and do PD/GW until the time when I want him to essentially wake up?

[Mattsmummy]

also, I need a plan for GW... can someone walk me through GW for NW and EW?  I'm okay at BT as he is usually pretty tired and generally is okay in his crib to fall asleep without contact with me - I just sit in the chair on the other side of the room.

How do I start for NW when he is very upset that I'm not picking him up??

[Mattsmummy]

sorry, just realized I have no idea re: bedtime for tonight...
Up at 6:44 (initally up at 5:05) but resettled with me until 644
Nap at nursery for about 1.5hr
BT?

[*Becky*]

I am going to get some GW eyes for you as tbh my 2 are more WIWO type lo's.
Sorry, I missed your post about BT but I would have gone for about 6pm or as close to it as possible.

IMO it is tricky in the mornings as they have already had quite a bit of sleep but I think the key is to remove as much contact as possible yk? So only go in if he REALLY needs you and if you do either sit or lie down in the dark near him. If you have to you can put your hand on his chest or something. He may cry but you are with him. Personally I would not get him out of the cot.

[Mattsmummy]

Okay, so this morning...Ugh...
BT last night was late (work issues which I hope to get resolved to get out on time).  In his crib by 6:55, asleep by 7:10pm
Slept through until 4:15am.  I went in and gave him some meds for his teeth and he went back into his crib with minimal fuss.
5:00am on the money - I hear him start to stir. I stayed in my room listening and it quickly turned into full on crying.

I thought, OK, now or never...I went in and he was standing in the crib.  I quickly rubbed his back and then laid down beside the crib.  I said "it's okay, mummy's here, it's still sleepy time" and he continued to fuss and cry for about 2 min.  Then he laid down.

He stayed laying down until 5:25am - I had my watch with me - when he stood up and the UBER MELTDOWN started...full on screaming, jumping up and down in the crib, trying to climb out. I kept repeating my phrase for a few minutes...until I simply couldn't take it any longer. 

I sat up beside the crib and rubbed his back and talked to him a bit. He was SO ANGRY...I figured he was not going to go back to sleep so I got him up at about 5:45am.

All morning he was off - almost still ticked off at me for not taking him into the rocking chair for a cuddle.

So step forward? who knows, certainly doesn't feel like it...

We left the house for work/nursery at 7:35am and he fell asleep in the car at 7:45.  I dropped him at nursery at 8:15am and had to wake him up. He will certainly be very tired all day long.

I'm planning on leaving early from work to be home with him for 4:30. Hopefully have him in bed asleep before 6pm.

I guess at least this shows me that he is indeed waking up from habit to have a nice warm morning cuddle - why stay in the crib when he doesn't have to...

Please tell me it gets easier from the first day right? I've never seen him so angry/upset...I know it's just a change for him but I was very close to giving in...

then for the Canadian BW's (and some northern US) out there, I got a Timmies on my way into work and got a stinking leaky cup...
 

[Truly Blessed]

also, I need a plan for GW... can someone walk me through GW for NW and EW? 

Hey Hun, just spotted this. I am on my way to work tonight but I will be back tomorrow and happy to hold your hand through the GW.

x.

[Truly Blessed]

Okay so DH is running late and I have 5 mins.
 
First of all I want to throw this out there. Despite it being a good opportunity or you to start GW without DH there, I wouldn't do this while he is sick or you for that matter. I think it is worth waiting until he is better and you are better and you're both able to cope to the best of your abilty YK  When Sam is ill this is the time when I would give him a cuddle if he needed it 

DH needs to get some wax ear plugs! They work brilliantly. MY DH and I have conflict when it comes to DS and it is the worst, but it happens. There can only be 1 person who takes the lead and as you are his main carer then it has to be you, unless he would like to take over everything you do for DS. MY DH works late at the weekends and I am cringing when Sam is noisy in the morning, but you can't please everyone. At the end of the day the child comes first.

For GW NW and EW, Becky is spot on. Avoid picking up at all costs (once he is well again) and use your sleepy phrase and ssh etc. You can put a hand on him or give him your hand to hold at first, and I should think he will probably need this to be honest, as a starting place. Only lie him down if it helps, if it makes him  more upset then don't and if he is standing and not crying then leave him to lie himself down and don't look at him if possible 

Let me know what you think Hun and I'll be back tomorrow.

(Hugs)

x.

[Mattsmummy]

Thanks for the reply...
DS usually has one NW and he generally goes back down pretty well (fingers x behind my back to not jinx).  This is when I normally give him a top up of his meds. I put him back into his crib and will rub his back for a few seconds. Depending on how he seems, I can either leave him to fall asleep, or if he's having trouble, lay down next to the crib.

The real problem is the 5am wake ups...He was so upset this morning that I wasn't picking him up. Nothing I said or did (rub his back) helped.

I'm beginning to wonder if I should't just get him up when he wakes, so say, 5:00 am or whenever and call that his WU and avoid all this drama. I have to have him up at 6 on the weekdays anyway so what's the point in trying to put him back down for under an hour.
Just sucks on the weekends but hopefully at some point he'll start to wake up later.  I guess this option would involve an EBT and catch up on the weekends right?

What about the CN in the car on the way to nursery? Is that only exacerbating the early WU? Does he see this as an extention of his night sleep or simply a CN?  It would be approx 2 - 2.5 hours post WU time...

I'm really struggling with how upset he was this morning. I know it's just a change and it was his way to say "Hey, what the heck, the chair's over there mum?!?!?" So hard to hear him get so upset and angry...

Plus I'm puzzled at how he can fall asleep and stay asleep for 9-10 hours and I don't hear a peep from him, only to wake at 5 and not be able to doze back off...

Ugh...so utterly frustrated and despondent   

[*Becky*]

I'm beginning to wonder if I should't just get him up when he wakes, so say, 5:00 am or whenever and call that his WU and avoid all this drama. I have to have him up at 6 on the weekdays anyway so what's the point in trying to put him back down for under an hour.

that is totally your call hun. If you are ok with that then by all means just get him up...there is nothing that says lo's have to sleep until 7am.

hat about the CN in the car on the way to nursery? Is that only exacerbating the early WU? Does he see this as an extention of his night sleep or simply a CN?  It would be approx 2 - 2.5 hours post WU time...

See to me that really says he is OT. He really should not be tired after such a short A time. I am not saying it doesn't happen, it does and we have all been there. If he can only nap at around 12.30pm at nursery and is up around 5am then to me it is pretty unavoidable but at the weekend I would just concentrate on working towards something more manageable for both of you.

Plus I'm puzzled at how he can fall asleep and stay asleep for 9-10 hours and I don't hear a peep from him, only to wake at 5 and not be able to doze back off...

Thst is really common tbh. M is the same. Goes down like a dream, sleeps all night unless in discomfort and then bam awake around 5-5.30am. It is usually OT here but it can in some cases be UT or of course discomfort. If there is anything not quite right then lo's will wake during the light sleep phase. And some, like my M are just habitual EW'ers...oh joy!

If you are really not happy with him crying then you can revert back to what you were doing. You need to be happy about whatever it is you decide to do. Nobody here wants to make you do something you are not comfortable with and unfortunately changing sleep habits does often involve some serious crying!

[Mattsmummy]

Thank you so much for all your advice...
I suppose I'll see how tonight goes...

If I decide to get him up at 5ish and keep the day at 12 - 13 hours long so BT at 6pm latest, is there anyway to gradually shift his schedule? Or do I have to wait for a good WU and spring board from there?

I know, you're right about the crying...It just worried me a bit - sad to see him so upset with real tears...

With regards to the weekend, would you do 2 naps then to help CU?

[Mattsmummy]

So, yesterday went like this...

WU - 5am
Nap 1 - 7:45am - 8:15am (30 min)
Nap 2 - 1:00pm - 3:30pm (2.5 hrs)
So, after that monster afternoon nap he had at nursery, I figured, well, he must be so OT and that is why he slept so long.
I took some banked time and left work early to be home to get him into bed early.

Had him bathed, fed and ready for bed at 5:55pm.  We read some stories and I put him into his crib at 6:15pm...
He played and chatted and stood up, sat down, played and chatted some more. This went on for a LONG time...Is it possible he was UT at BT because of the long nap?

Anyway, I picked him up and turned the night light back on. We read 1 more story - he was WIDE awake...I put him back into his crib.  He proceeded to climb out of the crib and fall to the floor as I was walking down the hall to let the dog out...
 
He is fine (thank goodness) but he was very upset and scared. I ended up rocking him to sleep... ended up going back into his crib asleep at 7:45 - so asleep from about 7:30/7:35pm

He STTN until 5:33am (I'm counting every minute!) - When he woke up I turned the night light on and we sat and chatted for a few minutes and got up (lights on/curtains open) at 5:45am.

He did not take a CN in the car this morning.

Any thoughts on BT? or does it depend on his nap length? I was sure that long nap was from him being OT and he would have fallen asleep early last night...My plan went pear shaped on me quite quickly...

[*Becky*]

ok so a 10 hour night and awake at 5.30am?
What nap did he do?

[Mattsmummy]

Well, yesterday he napped for 3 hours over two naps.  It's just before noon here so he will be going down for his nap shortly at nursery.
I won't find out until I pick him up how he napped. Would love to get another 2.5 hour nap out of him!
Regardless, I'm going to aim for BT around 6ish. As long as DH has finished lowering the crib mattress!

I think I will change his BT permanently from 7 to 6. At least this way, even if he doesn't fall asleep right away, he's closer to 7 than 8 and it's quiet time.

Thoughts?
 
Do you think he was UT yesterday at BT or still OT? I even tried to APOP him to get him to sleep earlier and he was just wide awake!

[*Becky*]

I would say UT...
I agree about the 6pm BT but only if his nap is not 2.5 hours long at 1pm - that won't work really.