Back again... These NW and EW are a killer!

[Erin M]

If he's still feeling bad, there's only so much you can do right now (though I understand that you need some sleep too right now!).  If you suspect that he's starting to feel better, I would slowly wean him off whatever you're doing to get him to sleep (and when he's really feeling better, he will most likely go back to independent sleep) -- when James was that age and was sick, I'd end up rocking him to sleep for all of his naps and holding him for most of them -- so I'd rock and then put him down in his crib with my hands on him, then wean the rocking. 

If he's still not better, less A time is probably in order -- I might cut back to 3.15 and see where that gets you -- if you wind up with an UT nap, then you'll know you need more.  DS takes stupidly short naps when he's sick, but he always wakes crying so I know that the shortness isn't due to UT. 

All 3 of mine turned into tummy sleepers once they could roll well, he's probably just finding what is most comfortable.

[My little Liam]

DS is finally feeling better but our NW the past few days were ridiculous and I had a feeling that LO became addicted to allot this apoping that's two months so I have been working with katie the past few days on PUPD and the NW have gone way down and there is still some crying and PUPD going on but all in all things are better. Since DS knew how to self settle before, if I get his A times right he goes down very easily but when they are wrong that is when the hysteria begins.
Anyways, I would love your help figuring out the right A times finally and then maybe we can get rid of the annoying NW and EW. They have been the same ones for months.

Last few days:

Dec. 9th

BT 1800

NW 1930-2200 this is when I started PUPD because I didn't have energy for another sleepless night.

NW 0020 BF PD awake. Fell asleep after 2 PUPD

EW 0445-0530

WU 0800


Dec. 10th

WU 0800

Attempted sleep 1125 hysterical crying non stop for 40 min. Passed out at 1205-1305

Attempted sleep at 1610 hysterical crying until 1650. Took him out of crib and decided not to try again since it was so late and do EBT

BT 1820 asleep after one PUPD

NW 0010 BF went start back to sleep but was in a strange position (it looked like he would break his neck, so I tried to slowly move him and he woke  ) played in crib until 0050 and then fell asleep independently.
EW 0510 woke up whining. Fussed and tried to settle until 0530 then started to cry. BF and put back down but then just wanted to play so we got up at 0600.


Yesterday

WU 0510 (but started day at 0600)

A 3hr40 (DS needs time in crib also included)

S 0850-1020 (started whining during WD, I thought maybe he was afraid to go down and we were going to have some crying but actually was asleep in less than a minute. I think he just wanted me to put him down already. Woke rubbing eyes and whining. I think he was still tired but he wouldn't resettle)

Attempted to PD at 1400 (3hr40 A) during WD he started to cry a little so I thought it was the same as this morning but when I put him down he played in his crib with his pacifiers changing between them, then standing. 20 minutes later he started to cry and we started PUPD until 1445 w hen he fell asleep in hysteria. He woke at 1600 so 1hr15 nap.

BT 1845 (I think I put him down too early and he was UT. He played fora while, then started to cry. PUPD until 1920)
NW 0050 BF PD awake, straight to sleep
NW 0210-0330 PUPD, a lot of crying. This a very common and long NW for us. Even apoping to sleep never worked in the past.
EW 0450 BF right back to sleep independently
WU 0615 crying

So our problem I think is mostly figuring out correct second A, and stoping long NW and EW. Please help me!!! 

[My little Liam]

I have been going over my notes and I think our day needs to be something like this

For example:

WU 0700
A 3hr45
S 1045-1215/1245
A 2hr30-45
S 1515-1645
A 2hr15
BT 1900

The problem is that DS has never slept for 12 hours. His longest nights have been 11.5 hrs. Plus, this routine only works if he has one 2hr nap. If he has a 1.5hr nap the day is only 11.5hrs. He will never sleep 12.5hrs! How do I make a day like this work??

[My little Liam]

Havent heard back... Would be grateful for some help!

[Erin M]

He will never sleep 12.5hrs!

I wouldn't expect him to at this age.  You're heading towards the later stages of 2 naps and in order to get your longer A time in, along with 2 decent naps, you should expect about an 11 hour night -- the night gets longer again when they get on 1 nap, but at his age, I wouldn't expect a night that long.

I'd start with your first A time -- do you know that if you do a 3.45 A time you'll get a 2 hour nap?  If you can get that consistently, I'd do a full A time again for the second nap (does he like shorter ones as the day goes on?) and possibly cap the second nap around 45 minutes so you can still do BT at a decent hour.

So, possibly something like this: (granted, this only works if he'll do okay with consistent A times -- if he needs them shortened, we can alter)
7 - WU
10:45-12:45 - nap
4:15-5 - nap
8 - BT

[My little Liam]

That is what I have been doing until now, but he always fights me on the second nap so that is why I think it is totally the wrong time. Plus, if those times are correct, why am I getting these NW and EW?? Why is he so OT??

[Erin M]

OK, that makes sense. 

Is this true:

do you know that if you do a 3.45 A time you'll get a 2 hour nap?

The best way to find out would be to try the shortened A time and see if he fights you and what kind of nap you get. 

[My little Liam]

Sometimes I get a 1.5hr nap in the morning but mostly 2 hour.
I tried 3hrs for the second nap today and it was an hour of hysteria and PD...in the end no nap and EBT...

[Erin M]

Ugh, that's not fun at all.  So, you're thinking OT before the naps then?  If so, then cut the A time back some more.  (They can fight it if they're not ready either way -- OT or UT, but since you think he's OT, then I'd shorten the A time and see where it gets you.)  It wouldn't be unusual for him to need less A time as the day goes on. 

[My little Liam]

I don't have a problem cutting back some more but by how much? Could his second A be so low?

[Erin M]

15 minutes, I'm not really sure.  I know you have an EASY post going right now -- maybe see what those ladies say?

[My little Liam]

Sure, though I haven't gotten a reply...

[Erin M]

I'm sure it's coming.    EASY gets very busy sometimes. 

[My little Liam]

Ok...thanks for your help!!

[Erin M]

Since we're working on routine now, I'm going to lock this one and continue here:
Something is off with our EASY