Some help getting started after APOP naps due to reflux!

[Me.and.my.two.boys]

OK, so I need some help.

Today is the day I had chosen to start DS2 nap training! I cant carry him round every nap so I really need help!

At night he sleeps well He goes to bed around 7 (never later than and wakes once for a feed between 2 and 3. He usually wakes again at 6 but this morning I replugged and he slept until 7.20

Due to C's reflux, I have been APOP pretty much every nap Now we have the reflux under control with gaviscon and ranitidine and he is much better I know he can sleep well because he does so at night - I just dont know why he wont nap alone!

Naps have either been in his carseat, pram or in my arms. They usually involve lots of crying and squirming and then someone having to hold him for the whole nap or he wakes up! I NEED him to nap in his moses basket - I cant carry him round any more!

So this is our day so far, its a bit wonky!

WU 7.20
E 7.20
A
S 8.40-9.20 (in carseat while dropping DP at work. Woke as soon as we arrived home)
A
E 10.30
S 10.40-11.40 (fell asleep while feeding but after burping I put him in his basket and he slept there for an hour )
A
S 12.40-1 (in carseat while dropping DS1 off at nursery)
A (in carseat while dropping DS1 off at nursery)
S 1.20-1.40 (in carseat while dropping DS1 off at nursery)
E 1.40
A
S 3.00 (took him up to his room at 2.45, swaddled, cuddled, sang twinkle twinkle and held him for a minute. His eyes were heavy but not closing. I put him down and left the room, he was calm for a few minutes but then he started crying so I went in and replugged. His cry esculated so I lifted him out, snuggled him close and walked around with him. I put him down about 1 minute after he fell asleep and hes still asleep 45 mins later

I guess my question is how to get him to sleep without me either feeding to sleep or carry him round until he falls asleep?

[Skadiver13]

I just wanted to let you know I had to apop my lo's naps for a number of reasons and while he may sleep independently at night they sometimes need sleep-training for naps as well. Can you post an normal days EASY when it's not wonky like when he wakes at 6? Also how old is your LO?

[Me.and.my.two.boys]

I thought I had replied yesterday our day doesnt really follow the same pattern every day - It totally depends on when he wakes up.

Yesterday he woke from that nap at 3.50, 5 mins after I posted. He had his catnap in the car while we were out picking up DS1 and went to bed at 7pm.

Today he woke at 5.50 which was way too early for us to wake up and he stayed asleep while feeding so I put him back down after he fed at 6.10 and he slept until 8.15 when we got up for the day.

For his nap this morning I did our WD and put him down but he just wouldnt settle, kept spitting his dummy out and started crying so I lifted him and held him close to settle him, he cried for a few minutes but stopped when I walked around/rocked him. I put him down asleep at 9.50 and he woke at 10.30. I tried to resettle but he just wouldnt so I lifted him.

I just dont know how to get him to sleep in his basket without me carrying him around first, how to resettle after a 40min nap and how to make sure naps are longer?? Grrrr... its never ending!

[PaulsMom]

Hi Kelly!  A couple of questions....  Does shh pat work for him?  Also, how do you put him down at bed time?  Drowsy?  Or is he asleep?

I was wondering if you could sit with him, swaddled and do shh pat for naps.  For my DS I had to start doing that (at first) until he was asleep and then put him down while still shh-ing.  Then gradually I'd pt him down while still awake.  Kinda like gradual withdrawal.  Took a while but it did work eventually.

I see that you are doing 1 hr 20 min A time.  Do you think he's ready for a nap at that time or if maybe you should start to lengthen his A by 10 min?  (Sorry can't recall exactly how old C is).

[Me.and.my.two.boys]

A time varies - this morning it was 1.35 from eyes open to eyes shut! I have been aiming for 1.30 but because it can take him so long to settle sometimes, I try and go up slightly earlier to account for that extra time.

BT varies too - I try and make sure he isnt asleep when I put him down but he usually falls asleep when Im feeding him and hes so sleepy at that time he just stays asleep, its so easy just to put him down and carry on with my night without any hastle but I know thats a problem 

Ive only tried shh/pat when he has been upset, its never worked so I end up carrying/rocking to sleep Once swaddled he isnt happy unless Im walking, if I sit down with him awake he starts crying and wont settle

He is due a nap in 15mins so I think I will try shh/pat from awake and see if he will settle - its so hard with DS1 downstairs and coming up all the time waking C when Im trying to settle him! This will probably fail

[Me.and.my.two.boys]

OK - so this is the first shh/pat nap with no rocking/carrying

I took him up at 12, swaddled and sang a few songs, When I stopped he started to cry so I started shh'ing and patting his bum but he just cried louder, I actually put white noise on instead of shh'ing because it was louder over the crying and it seems to have worked. He cried hard for 3 mins and then just fell asleep in my arms, he actually even woke a little when I put him down but he just turned his head and I left the room.

Ive left the white noise on so Im hoping it helps him sleep a little longer. Im going to aim to put him down sooner and sooner each time. Ill let you know when he wakes from this nap.

Out of curiosity - what should A be? Im mostly aiming for around 1.30. I took him up at 1.30 but he wasnt asleep until 1.45 - does this sound about right?

[PaulsMom]

Yay for the shh pat nap!  I would think that the white noise can substitute for the shh-ing.  I'm aiming for 1 hr 30 min A time for my dd (ie. start the wd at about 1 hr 20 min so she is usually asleep at 1 hr 30 min) however I'm  not sure if this is right for her as I usually get 45 min naps regardless of the A time .  Lets see how C does with the 1 hr 45 min A.  If he wakes early then, I agree with trying shorter A.  Also, not sure if you find that L over stimulates C?  This is certainly the case in my house although dd is getting "used to" Paul so I think this is getting to be less of an issue.

[Me.and.my.two.boys]

Hey, well the other day went ok. He napped in his basket and ive not been rocking/walking but he wont nap longer than 45 mins!!

yesterday he did one basket nap but we were out the rest of the day so he napped in his carseat/buggy and ended up OT but that was unavoidable.

Today things have been a little all over the place as he seems to want fed after 2.5hr instead of 3! he has had 3 naps in his basket. This is our day so far

E 7am (he stayed asleep through the whole feed and would probably have wanted to sleep more if DS1 hadnt woken him at 7.20)
A
S 8.50 - 9.30 (DP brought him to me crying at 8.35 and I swaddled and did shh/pat, he screamed for 10 minutes and then moaned for
                      another 3 then fell asleep and I put him down)
E 9.30
A
S 11.00 - 11.45 (went upstairs at 10.45, got changed, swaddled, sang then started shh/pat. He screamed for about 2 minutes then calmed and
                          fell asleep)
A
E 12.10 (seemed fussy and I don't think he took much)

Im just about to take him up for his next nap. If he is only sleeping for 45 mins, should I shorten A time? Maybe after a short nap 1.30 is too much?

[PaulsMom]

You could try a slightly short A time. I find as the day progresses dd A times tend to get shorted, likely because she's OS.  I also will APOP one nap if needed to get back on track (ie. in ca seat  ). 

For nap extending, I've had some luck with going in around 40 min and starting to shh her.  If needed I also rub her tummy.  Of course I have to do his for around 15 min or until I'm sure she's in a deeper sleep.  If I leave and her eyes are "moving" ie. in rem sleep, she tends to wake up.  Also not easy to do with  a 4 yo around  .

Our feeding is all over the place too.  She can go for a long time but schedules make it tough.  Also I think she had a mini gs at around 15 weeks where she was feeding more, especially in the evening.

[Me.and.my.two.boys]

ok so this is what happened

S 1.10 - 2.20 ( he woke at 1.30 but dp resettled and he went back down
A
E 3.00
A
S DP took him up at 3.45 (5 mins ago) so Im not sure whether he is asleep yet. I hope he has a decent nap because it will be hard to fit another nap in before BT but unless we do a super early BT he will be so OT 

Im going to post on the props board about the white noise. It does seem to help but I am worried he will become dependant on it and whether I should just cut it now before he really needs it? I just really struggle to shh for so long iykwim?

[PaulsMom]

Fx for a longer nap.  can you extend (if needed) in the stroller? 

Oh, I know how hard it is to shh for so long!  Wrt while noise, can you leave this on for him?  I don't know how much of a prop it is it it's just on, iykwim?  I've never used white noise but when I'm shh-ing, I'm wishing that we had something!