8MO standing & screaming at bedtime

[kamada]

Hi. I'm hoping someone can help... My little man has just turned 8 months old. He's been crawling and pulling himself up for a couple of weeks now and has recently discovered how to sit back down without falling. With the help of this forum things have been going well routine-wise and he is on 2 good naps a day (1.5-2hrs, often I have to wake him). However, we are going through a horrible stage of him standing up and screaming at bedtime. It starts with a grizzly cry (mantra?) then escalates to more of a scream/hard-out cry, at which point I go in, lay him down and give him his dummy and attempt to leave the room. Often the crying escalates as he sees me walking out. If I stay in the room, sometimes he keeps crying (but not screaming), occasionally he will giggle and want to play. Sometimes he just seems to be in an unbreakable pattern of rolling over and pulling himself up. This goes on for at least an hour, until either he seems so exhausted that he starts to settle for longer periods and eventually falls asleep on his own, or until I can't take it any more and try to feed or rock him to sleep (works maybe 50% of the time and only after trying to get him to sleep for quite a while already). We went through something similar when he learned to roll over and again with him rocking on hands and knees prior to crawling, so I'm sure a huge part of this is developmental... but this time it seems worse. And if it was developmental, would it last for weeks?

Other info:
- It's hot and light here until almost 9pm at the moment, so have wondered if that is contributing
- It was better for several days over Christmas, when his day was more like 8am-9pm and we took him to Christmas parties- lots of stimulation.
- He usually wakes once for a feed overnight and goes straight back to sleep afterwards
- He settles independently within a few minutes for naps.
- We are on approx 3hrs A time- I have tried slightly shorter/longer A before bed but doesn't make a difference.

We would really appreciate any help you can give us. I want my evenings back!

[JennŠ]

Separation anxiety maybe?

[*Ali*]

Check out this link Separation Anxiety

[kamada]

Thanks for your reply. I'm not sure that's it though... he's not clingy during the day; he's fine playing with other adults without us in the room; and recently we left him at my parents' house for a few hours and he was perfectly happy- he even had a nap there. I guess it could be more of an anxiety about being on his own, but then wouldn't that also be an issue for naps, not just bedtime?

[JennŠ]

Hard to say.  Nighttime is different.  Not sure I can explain it well ATM.

[*Ali*]

I've seen on this forums lots of people say it only affects their LO at BT, NWs and EWs. I can't explain why but it does seem to work that way. Even if it isn't SA, I'd you are happy he isn't sick or in pain from teething you could still use the WIWO from the link.

The other possibility is UT and perhaps he needs a bump in A time. Maybe try an extra 15mins?

[scruffymax]

Have you tried leaving him a bit longer to see what happens?  I know with my DD I really have to just leave her as my going it upsets her more.

[*Ali*]

I think you said you are already leaving her while she mantra cries and are only responding when it turns into a hard cry so I wouldn't wait any longer if that is the case. We recommend attending to an I-need-you cry.

[kamada]

Yes, I'm definitely responding when it turns into an I-need-you cry. Going in calms him briefly, until he realises I'm not staying. I've wondered about needing more A time, but our day is already so long. A few days ago he had a 40 min nap in the car but still a similar A time to bed, with no difference in how he settled that night.
Funnily enough last night was a late bedtime (8.45pm because his afternoon nap was late since we were out) and he settled on his own within 15 min! We'd all slept in until 8am, so it was a reasonable length day, just starting and finishing late (which was what happened with the good nights over xmas). Very interested to see what happens tonight. If settling is still a problem I'll try medicating before bedtime in case it's teeth and be more consistent with WI/WO. Thanks.

[kamada]

Well things still haven't improved. We did have 2 slightly better nights where he put himself to sleep relatively easily, but since then he has been back to screaming and fighting sleep every night. I have no idea what was different about those nights. He's extremely hard to calm in bed now as he keeps grabbing my hands wanting to be picked up. Most nights we eventually get him to fall asleep in his cot, but it's so exhausting.

Maybe it is an A time issue, but I have no idea what the magical time would be. Tonight he looked wide awake after 3 hrs, so I tried keeping him up until he looked tired, but it was still a difficult bedtime (he FINALLY fell asleep at 9.25pm). Should I be capping his naps to keep the day shorter? (Though it didn't help today- his 1st was only 1hr in the car, 2nd I woke him at 1h 45 so bed time wouldn't be too late- ha!) Is this the beginning of the 2-1? Any other ideas? I'm finding it so difficult to deal with him calmly now when it takes up my entire night, every night... days seem very long now that my husband is back at work.

[*Ali*]

From 7mo with my DS2 I had to wake him after 1.5hrs for each of his two naps as any more and he would have UT NWs. He needed the two full naps though or he got OT. Maybe your LO needs something similar. He probably can't cope on one short and one ling nap like he had today but may still need less sleep overall. He probably got OT after the short morning nap and then tried to make up for it with a long pm nap that ended up being too late.

I'm not convinced he is there yet (I could of course be wrong) but have you seen this FAQ on the 2-1?  10 to 12 mth old Sleep Gone Wonky, and the 2 - 1 Nap Switch

[kamada]

Thanks! Yes, I've read several of the threads about 2-1 naps. Really the only thing that points towards it is struggling to fit enough hours in the day, so I don't think he's quite there yet either. I will try capping both naps at 1.5hrs for a few days and see what happens. Thankyou xx

[*Ali*]

Fingers crossed for you

[kamada]

Ali- thankyou so much for your suggestion of capping both naps at 1.5hrs. Although bedtime is still far from perfect, he is now putting himself to sleep within about 1/2hr and is much calmer and easier to settle. I think part of it was getting through the developmental phase of non-stop standing up in bed, but moving to shorter but still restorative naps has definitely helped. Cutting some day time sleep also keeps the day at closer to 12hrs rather than 13, which means I've been able to increase the A time slightly as well.

In case it helps anyone else: The other thing I did was refuse to nurse/rock to sleep, no matter how long it took to settle him in bed- just used WI/WO if he was calm enough, otherwise sat next to his cot/said sleepy phrase/held hand etc, but didn't pick him up. I found it much easier to do when he was in bed an hour earlier (because of shorter naps), rather than previously when I was worried about him needing to go to sleep quickly since it was already a late night.

So thankyou, we are all much happier and less stressed now xx

[*Ali*]

I'm so happy to hear that it is working well for you. Those developmental milestones can definitely throw a spanner in the works can't they? Great update