Tired 8-months-old crying while rolling over, crawling and pulling up in cot

[Mel-Lisa]

Hello,

I am beginning to be quite desperate and absolutely exhausted, so I am very much hoping that somebody here has some ideas what I should do differently.

DD is 8 months old, she sleeps (well, should sleep) in her own cot in her own room. She used to be fine sleeping in the cot at night up until approximately six months and mostly would even go to sleep by herself and then sleep from 7 until 5:30 and after a short feed continue sleeping for another hour in our bed. At six months, DD learned crawling, very shortly after that, sitting and about a month ago she started pulling herself up. Since then, as soon as I put her on her back into her cot, she rolls over and starts crawling, no matter whether she is readily tired or overtired. She keeps crawling around and pulling herself up in the cot, and eventually she gets so tired that she will cry but even then she will persist rolling from the back onto belly and keeps crawling and crying at the same time. She never sleeps on her belly and never just lies relaxed on the belly either. The crawling and crying happens when I put her down for naps during the day and also for bedtime and in the middle of the night. And this has been going on for the past two months. At the moment, she wakes up approximately every 2 hours at night, so sth like 4-5 wakeups in total.

The way I get her to sleep for naps and bedtime is either by nursing DD (but am trying to eliminate this), lying her on her side and often letting her suck my finger (not using a dummy) which I then pull out when she is very close to asleep, usually she will open her eyes shortly and then keep sleeping, or if she gets very upset I pick her up, rock her and put her down when asleep. The way it is during the day is alright for me. However, DD wakes up some time between 10 and 1 at night, starts screaming, and I try the above mentioned strategies but usually as soon as I want to go back to bed, even if DD was asleep, she wakes up again and screams. In the end I am mostly so tired and exhausted that I take her out of the cot and nurse her on a spare mattress that's lying in DD's room - usually we both fall asleep there and stay there for the rest of the night but both of us keep waking up every couple of hours and easiest (bad habit, I know) seems to be to nurse her. The times I get her to continue sleeping in the cot, it takes something between 15 minutes (nursing and putting back, but doesn't always work) and 2 hours and then DD often wakes after about an hour.

Our routine is:
Nighttime sleep ca. 10 - 11 hours (minus awake time for resettling)
Naps: usually 3 adding up to ca. 2.5 to 3 hours

Wake up at 6.05, can stay so early because often that's the only time DD can see her dad as he often can't be home before she's in bed
E 6:45 solids
A
S 8:45 - 9:30/10:00
E 10:30 solids and breastfeed
A
S 12:30/12:45 (depending on when DD got up from first nap) - 1:15/2:00
E 2:30 solids and breastfeed
A
S 4:30/4:45 - 5/5:15
A
E 5:30 solids
A going for a long walk
E 6:45 breastfeed
BT 7:00 / 7:30

Our naptime routine is changing nappy and listening to musical rabbit, putting on sleeping bag, closing blinds, telling DD where I will be and what I will do while she sleeps, sleepy kiss, cot.
Our bedtime routine is walk with DD in carrier (30 - 45 min), then change nappy and listening to musical frog, putting on sleeping bag, and while feeding reading a book, singing three lullabies in same order, burping, night kiss, cot.

I tried introducing different loveys but DD doesn't really take to it, rather sees it as fun toy to play with and gets all excited.

Can anyone help me understand what and how I should improve what I am doing? Please?
Should I try to get her down to two naps a day? 13 hours between wake up and bedtime seem like a very long time?
Should I eliminate the evening walk and give her crawling time instead? DD is not very much into sitting on my lap and quietly reading a book or listening to music.
How do I get her to fall asleep in the cot without nursing/finger sucking/rocking?? Whenever I try, she starts screaming and crying and won't listen to any singing, humming, shushing, talking, just gets entirely upset.

I am very very desperate and really want to help DD (and me) to get better sleep without having her cry too much - it is so heartbreaking to hear and see how tired she is but just can't sleep. I am really hoping somebody can help!?
Lisa

[jessmum46]

Hi there,

I think your problem is that she is UT (undertired) because her A times are too short for her age and she is having three naps when at her age she should be having two.  She resists the naps because she isn't tired enough, and only sleeps for a short time, so by the end of the day she is OT from lack of restful sleep, but can't stay soundly asleep because she hasn't had enough A time during the day.  Does that make sense?

At 8 months she should be able to handle 3h A time at a minimum.  I would suggest you work on increasing your first A time by 10 mins every 3 days until her first nap lengthens to at least 1.5h (even if you need to resettle midway).  Do the same with your second A time if you get a good nap, and instead of going for a catnap in the evening I would just try for an early bedtime instead.  You might find some of this information useful - All about the 3-2 transition- 5/6 months

Has she ever been an independent sleeper - as in been able to put her down fully awake and she settles herself off to sleep?

[Mel-Lisa]

Hello,

Thanks for the response! What you're saying about 2 instead of 3 naps and longer A time makes sense and I have actually tried that the last couple of days. It seemed to work quite well, I had to resettle her during the naps but that extended on nap to 1 go our and 20 min and the other one to 2 hours 5 min. there wasn't any improvement regarding waking at night (4 times). I guess it might just take a while for DD to get used to new routine and she did fall asleep at BT with just my hands on her forehead, rather than feeding/rocking/sucking.

DD used to be able to go to sleep by herself at BT (never for naps though) but hasn't done that for the past two months now. She stopped doing that when starting to crawl and also at the same time being on a 5-week-vacation with me but away from home and away from dad. Now we have been back home for three weeks but I think she had gotten used to me helping her to fall asleep.

Do you think I should change something about BT/nap routine? for a routine, should I bring her into bed exactly at the same time each day or adjust the time depending on what time DD woke from the nap?

[jessmum46]

I would try to stick with the same A times rather than going by clock times - so yes you would adjust nap and BT depending on how long she sleep and when she gets up from her naps. 

Is independent sleep something you want to work on or are you happy with rocking etc?  I think independent sleep will likely help with your NWs as she won't need you if she happens to wake up (as we all do briefly throughout the night).  Are you familiar with PUPD and gradual withdrawal?

[Mel-Lisa]

I am very keen on DD falling asleep independently but I just don't know where to start. I'm also not entirely clear on some of the PUPD. Once she starts being upset and screaming in her cot, she stops when I pick her up but immediately starts when being put back into the cot. If I don't pick her up but just help her lie down, she just continues screaming. So would I do PUPD with her even though she can stand (she does know how to sit down again)? If yes, would I leave her crawling/standing in the cot for as long as she doesn't cry even if it is by far extending her normal amount of activity time and she is showing tired signs? Or do I put her down whenever she stands up, even if she's happy?
Thank you for your help!

[jessmum46]

If she is pulling to stand then you don't PU at all (apart from very occasionally if she is completely frantic and needs a short comfort - but keep this to an absolute minimum).  If she is messing around in the cot or pulling to stand but not upset, ignore her and don't interact other than to occasionally say your sleep phrase.  If you can sit side on or with your back to the cot, all the better to avoid eye contact.  At this age once she is standing and crying I would lie her down again then take up your position beside the cot.  She will cry and protest - 'this isn't how we do it Mummy!' - but if you are consistent and aiming for a good A time then she should learn quickly.  OT is inevitable with sleep training but at some point she will push past it and sleep.  Does that help?

[Mel-Lisa]

Thank you, I am trying to get lo to fall sleep on her own and at least the last two nights, I only had to sit next to her and last night the wake ups were less and easier to resettle. Regarding the day naps, DD's schedule now is

WU at 6.20
1st nap at 9.45 - 11
2nd nap at 2.30 - 3.50
BT at 7.10, sleeps at 7.30

Do the naps have the right length or should she be sleeping longer?

[jessmum46]

Is she happy and rested?  If she is, you don't necessarily need to change anything.  Ideally you want one nap to be 1.5h at least to be properly restorative though, so you could try adding 10 mins to your first A time and holding for a few days to see if you can get that nap to lengthen out.  It might mean you need to wake her from the second nap to prevent BT getting too late but it's fairly normal to start having to do that at this age.