5 month old sleep issues

[Clairehv]

Hi
I have several issues and think they are probably linked but having had a relatively 'good' night sleeping baby and who with some perseverance on my part would do decent naps has now totally changed.
i have had about 3 hours sleep a night in the last week and I feel like I am doing something really wrong.
We have progressed through a 3 hour to 3.5 to 4 hour EASY but have never done a DF.
From 6-12 weeks DD slept 7-7 with 1 nw between 2-4am for a feed.
At 13 weeks she started sleeping 7-7. Then at 19 weeks started waking once for a feed again. She is on the 75% ile and I just thought she probably couldn't get enough milk from 4 bottles and she was doing about 750 ml in a day but I definitely couldn't introduce another day bottle as she wasn't interested.
I was about to contemplate introducing a DF but then she did a few nights 7-7 again.

Then about 3 weeks ago she started waking more than once a night and i think it was hunger so we began weaning at 22 weeks. She is 16lb5 and we are on a 4 hour EASY although she struggles to be awake and happy for the full two hours.
Basically the last week has been pretty hellish. She has been taking a really good bedtime feed sometimes up to 300ml and always settles really well at 7pm ish. She is very good at BT.
But then she has been waking at anytime between 12-1am where she has taken up to 180 ml but then has been waking at 4-5 am. I have not fed at this time and have managed to get her back to sleep by cuddling in bed and she has maybe slept from6-6.45am to get us on track for the day.
Saturday night was the worst night
240ml at BT, 10pm crying took 150ml (sucked bottle dry) and fell asleep. 2.30am crying fed took 60 ml. 4.30am crying but managed to get her to sleep next to me until 6.15am.

I have also noticed her milk has dropped off in the day. On Sunday she completely refused bottle in the am. Then only did 100ml at 11 and 150 ml at 3 so I am not surprised she is waking at night.

The last two nights she has fed once in night but has woken at 5 am and OT resettled6-7 in bed with me.

So firstly is it normal for milk to drop in day with the beginning of weaning?But then she definitely needs milk so is bound to make it up in the night.
Secondly how do I sort out this 4/5am waking which is not hunger. As she never downs the full 7 am bottle
Thirdly should I introduce a DF. She is 6 months next week and I know Tracy advises to stop DF at 7ish months.

This is a long email but I am stressed exhausted and resentful right now.
Please help!

A good day for us looks like

E 7am wake Bottle ( now sometimes only takes 100ml)
A including 7.45/8am solids
S 8.45/ 9 am 1.5-2 hour nap ( usually best nap of day and rarely does 40 min wake up)

Wakes up anytime between 10.30/11
E 11am bottle ( have pushed this feed out to 11.30) as was not interested. Does anything from 100-200ml
A
S around 12.45. Hardest nap to manage and if it goes wrong really makes the rest of the day hard work. Often wakes at 40 mins and if at home can usually use shh pat to extend to get to 1.5 hrs. If we are out it all goes wrong. She wakes in her pram after 40 mins and then will often just stay awake but be whiny on and off. I have been known to continue walking for over an hour to then get her to drop off for 20 mins to get us to the 3pm feed.

E 3pm bottle
A
S depending on lunch sleep needs a nap anytime from 3.30. If she has had 1.5/2 hours at lunch this will be a 30 min nap at around 4.45. If she has only done 40 mins at lunch this sleep could be 1.5 hrs but I always wake by 5/5.15
E 5.15 ish solids
A including bath
E 6.40 Bottle 2.40 ml
S 7 pm ish

[Erin M]

OK, I have a few thoughts:
First off, solids at this age are more for practice than anything else -- I'd probably just keep them in the morning and not the evening in case they are partly to blame.  It can really take some getting used to for the feeling of solids moving through their tummies and it can cause disruptions in their sleep.  That might also improve your milk intake.  She's going to get the bulk of her calories from formula at this age (formula is much more rich in fat, calories, and nutrients than whatever kinds of solids you're giving her) so you don't want to do anything that's going to mess with her milk intake.

Second, what kind of solids are you giving her?  Some of them can cause more digestive disruptions than others.

Also, it might be time to move towards dropping that cat nap.  (All about the 3-2 transition- 5/6 months)  Early wakings generally indicate a need for more A time.   It doesn't seem like you'd need a whole lot more A time first thing in the morning, but the A time between the first and second nap could most likely use some pushing.

[Clairehv]

Erin,
Thank you very much for your response to my lengthy e-mail.
I have been getting very down about things, cried myself to sleep last night.
Last night she woke at 9.45 and after trying to resettle with other methods she did 160ml at 10.15pm.
Then she woke at 1.30am. I again tried shh pat and PU/pd. I also did check nappy and bonjela in case of teething but in the end offered bottle as I am just so tired. ( I cried throughout this as I felt I was doing the wrong thing by offering the bottle but just needed her to sleep! She took a little while to settle after this. I had to go in at 2.30 and cuddle to settle)
She did 100ml and was settled by 2.30am. She did make it to 7 am this morning.

Re solids:-as she is not 6 months until 27th I have been following annabel karmel with the fruit and veg purées. We are on week 3.
However as she had reduced her day milk I moved the lunch solids later in the day to try and keep her interested in the 3pm bottle.
She always seems to do her BT milk regardless of solids at 5ish.

I do think the night feeding is putting her off breakfast. This morning she has only done 100ml at 7.30am. So I feel like its a vicious cycle of then less milk in day.

Re naps and A time - thank you. She is very good at giving me her sleep signals, whingy, rubbing eyes and yawn. If I act in this and get her into her cot or pram she goes to sleep with no fuss. The times when I have missed these or extended she gets herself hysterical. I can always get her to sleep but then she is a lot more likely to have disturbed sleep and do the 40 min wake up and not get herself back to sleep.
She does genuinely not seem able to be awake for more than two hours.
If by some miracle she did a good lunch sleep of two hours from 12.45-2.45 then I really don't think she could last through bathtime and bedtime without at least a 20 min nap.
In fact a few weeks ago we started  bathtime at 5.30 as she was so tired and whingy.

How should I extend the A time between nap 1-2 without causing hysteria.

I like the suggestion it is just the lunchtime sleep seems the hardest to enforce with her and it is so important as it majorly impacts on the rest of the day.

Thanks again for your help. They are really good comments

Claire x

[Erin M]

Hi sweetie!
First off, some huge (((hugs)))).  It's so easy to let this whole sleep thing get you down.  I know when my dd1 was small, I worried so much about her sleep and would get so upset if things weren't "perfect". 

I again tried shh pat and PU/pd. I also did check nappy and bonjela in case of teething but in the end offered bottle as I am just so tired. ( I cried throughout this as I felt I was doing the wrong thing by offering the bottle but just needed her to sleep! She took a little while to settle after this. I had to go in at 2.30 and cuddle to settle)

It's ok, I promise.  We all do things that we think we "shouldn't" sometimes, but when you're just so tired you'll do anything to get some sleep, and that's ok.  Definitely do not beat yourself up over it.  My feeling is that it's probably more of an A time thing than a hunger thing as she's not going back to sleep directly after the bottle (generally if it's a huger waking, they'll pass right back out after they eat). 

My ds sounds much like your daughter -- needed more A time, but it was so hard to get there!  In her case, I think you need to push very gently, just a little bit at a time.  Since your first A time is working ok right now, I might leave it and work on that second one.  If all you can get is 5 more minutes, then just stick with that for a few days.  You can add 5 more minutes to her A time every 3-4 days and that should hopefully stretch it nice and gradual.  Keep those 5 minutes as low key as you can.  With my ds, we'd have to do some shifting of location -- I'd have to move around the house a bit to keep his interest and to keep him from getting too cranky as we moved towards the end of his A time.  We'd generally end up at the end in his room with the lights already low -- just super low key to keep things low stimulation. 

When she wakes at night, if you feed, I might try offering just a tiny amount.  It doesn't sound like she needs it and it does seem to be messing with her intake during the day.  Fruits and vegs are good first foods, I'd honestly just stick to the morning for now, it was what I did with all 3 of mine -- dinner came some weeks later, and lunch didn't happen until a few months later! 

Hang in there sweetie, it will be ok!

[Clairehv]

Thanks Erin, I have been feeling really down and anxious about everything. Finding this new mum thing very overwhelming. Actually went to talk to the Dr about my feelings on Friday and feeling a bit better just to have voiced how anxious I have been.

Well night times have improved some what in that DD will do bottle and settle at 7pm and then for the past two nights has woken once sometime between 10.30-12.30am. She has done 4-5oz then gone straight to sleep until 7am.

As she is 6 months this week I think I am going to try and up the milk in the day in things such a cereal and yogurts so I am not so stressed about her milk intake.
Then I am going to try and reduce the night feeds in volume.
I just needed a few nights of reasonably good sleep to feel strong enough to try that.

I really think a flexible routine works but I have realised that I was becoming very anxious about sticking to it and worried about going out with her in case she doesn't sleep well in her pram.

One step at a time though

[Erin M]

You sound like you're doing really well!

Glad you got to talk to your doctor too.  It may be that you need to stay home for a set amount of time (like a week or two) and hammer out your "perfect" routine -- and then you'll know where you can push things, where you can stay out for a bit -- and then even if you miss some naps for a day or two, you'll know what to get back to.

It can be totally overwhelming at first with a new LO, my dd1 overwhelmed me completely but you definitely do get the hang of it.