4 month old in sleep regression; advice or insights please!

[becj86]

2.5hr is the mid point between 2 and 3hr and at 5 months (between 4 and 6), she's basically just on track to drop to 2 naps at 6 months. I wouldn't say its particularly high, a little higher than average but not drastically so.

Any chance overstimulation is a factor in that PM nap being short?

Loads of milk at BT helped us too. I actually expressed after L went to bed so I could do a bottle of EBM as a topup after BF at the BT feed.

[monopod]

Do you know, wood for trees and all that.. You're quite right about the midpoint being 2.5h; I feel a bit stupid I think so much time has gone by since I started trying to sort out her naps that her getting older has overtaken me!... Having said that, it is a struggle to get her down at 2.5h and she has slept better with longer A times, though frequently still wakes early, and frequently happy. It used to be 35mins but lately has been 45-55. I think this makes me feel better about letting her stay up longer though.

But get this: yesterday her afternoon naps amounted to only 55mins and 35mins and she had the best night she's had in a long time! She fell asleep independently, had a couple of wakings around 10pm (husband managed to resettle her quite quickly), and then she woke only at 1.50am and 5.30am the only difference was that I hadn't let her snack in the late afternoon so she had lots of milk at BT

The EBM sounds like a great idea that I would adopt if she would only consent to take a bottle

Overstimulation -- I had wondered that, but don't think it's the cause of the short napping...

[becj86]

The EBM sounds like a great idea that I would adopt if she would only consent to take a bottle

LOL!

Overstimulation can give you short naps - LO will wake ready to go and not rested (DS was less coordinated and more eager to try things).

My DS was pretty happily dealing with a skewed day and longer than 3hr A times at 6 months, so you may find a longer A time in the AM or between naps suits her. BW is about listening to what bub needs. We have averages as a guide, but they're not always going to suit every child

[monopod]

About overstimulation, I meant that I didn't think she was overstimulated rather than that I didn't think overstimulation caused short napping I will definitely keep an eye on that one though! Maybe, with some luck, as we get closer to the 3-2 nap transition, she'll start napping longer...

I will try not to be neurotic about fitting her into a box I guess I should just take her cues and not fret; I absolutely wouldn't mind her short napping if she was sleeping better at night though! We'll keep going and I'll keep observing and listening

[becj86]

Ok, just checking

Cues are good when you can see them I kind of used the clock to know when to start looking for cues or we'd have been in a right mess thinking every yawn or eye rub was time to put him down for a sleep or never putting him down at all...

[monopod]

I find cues difficult too... Sometimes she gives me what I think are tired signs (e.g. rubbing face in your shoulder) when she's only been awake an hour so I think this can't be... Then other times she gives no signs at all (and I've been watching her closely) so it approaches the 2.5h mark and I think right, I think we need to start wind-down anyway, and then I end up nursing her to sleep after she's screamed and fought going down. I can't work out whether she's overtired or needs more waketime and I feel like if I could only get that first afternokn nap sorted then we might be able to tackle these continuing NWs...

Today was another bizarre one. She woke as usual at the 45min mark this afternoon and I managed to get her back down by nursing her, and she ended up sleeping 2h (had to wake her)! And then 2.5h later I tried for a catnap (although admittedly she didn't look tired at all) and finally gave up an hour later... I fully expected her to fall asleep while nursing but she was so happy and smiley and eventually put hersefl cheerfully to bed for the night after four hours A time!! Sigh... guess we're in for another night of multiple NWs.

[becj86]

Cues are tricky with some - she's not spirited is she?

[katie80]

Hi hon, just catching up here after a week away (I didn't desert you! ). 

I know she *can* fall asleep independently, but do you think she is still depending on BF a bit?  Just reading through the last posts, I was wondering if that may be a contributing reason to the napping transitions and NWs.   Do you think if you stuck with shh/pat during those, she might start settling more on her own?  (Brainstorming a bit here... not saying you have to do it.)

Also, is there anyway to APOP (a walk in the stroller or something) that CN after two good naps so you don't end up with so long to bed and have a better chance at a decent night?  It gets so tricky when they're close to dropping it, but can be such a bugger if they don't get it. 

[monopod]

Hi Katie! You're absolutely right with the observation that I have nursing to sleep a little too handily in my back pocket Especially in the past week! I know I shoud be much more consistent in not doing that so thanks for the reminder! I did think that it might be a contributor but I think I felt ok about it because she could fall asleep independently so I convinced myself that it wasn't a prop...

Today she did another 45min nap (they all seem to be 45mins now rather than 35) but DH put her to bed so we avoided the BF to sleep scenario, hoorah! Not that it prevented her waking up at the 45min mark, alas. He was kind enough to share his 'secret technique' with me, haha (I'll try it tomorrow!) Then for the CN I did precisely what you suggested and APOPed! We had a family outing to the supermarket and she snoozed peacefully for half an hour in the sling. I think I might go out in the evenings more now that the weather is finally getting a bit better; it's got to be preferable to a screaming baby in a darkened room...

Becj, I didn't think she was spirited but then again I last took the questionnaire when she was tiny (at that point she was angel/textbook)... Since then she has definitely developed a spirited side though!

[katie80]

Today she did another 45min nap (they all seem to be 45mins now rather than 35) but DH put her to bed so we avoided the BF to sleep scenario, hoorah! Not that it prevented her waking up at the 45min mark, alas. He was kind enough to share his 'secret technique' with me, haha (I'll try it tomorrow!)

This might be because she just hasn't totally learned to self-settle yet.  I think if you stick with the 'secret technique' for a good week or so, she might start doing better. (But, I totally know the need and temptation for a prop with the second LO, it's just different.  So, don't feel like I'm trying to call you out... it was just something I noticed.)

I think I might go out in the evenings more now that the weather is finally getting a bit better; it's got to be preferable to a screaming baby in a darkened room...

Yes, for sure!!!

[monopod]

Hi Katie I'm back for an update... Not much progress here! Or at least it seemed like we were making some and have slid back again, sigh! We were doing really well with not feeding to sleep t all for several days and then I got ill and it became the half-term holiday and the routine got disrupted and bam! The past three days her usual long morning nap on the go has either been shortened or become a catnap and then it's all been different afterward. NW-wise we are still getting multiple ones per night though it was quite good for a couple of nights a couple of days ago (of which more below).

Interestingly, the shortened morning nap has meant i have managed to get her to take a long afternoon nap! Still not in her cot where I want her to, but in the sling or stroller. Which is not great but actually still progress because before she would only catnap in there if she'd had a good morning nap. In terms of how it's affected the NWs, it seemed.to improve them when she had a good PM nap! Whch is great, except it's the one nap I can't reliably get

Tonight she's thrown another googly at me. She's been up wide awake for an hour. At first chattig and yowling loudly but not crying so i left her to her own devices at first. She got louder and started to fret so I went to her and she just stared at me with big eyes and tried to put herself back to sleep but wouldn't let me leave without starting to fret again. Eventually I fed her though I don't think she was actually that hungry! Have put her back in bed and i finally think after 1.5h she is going back to sleep...

Sigh.

[katie80]

(((Hugs))), you'll get there!  There are definitely positives in your update.

[monopod]

I'm hoping that the next time I update it will be with good news!

[katie80]

Will hope so too!  But, don't feel bad if you don't and want to come here for more support!