Need Help Tweaking A time for 3rd Nap

[Kymmi13]

DS is almost 3 months now and is having trouble settling for 3rd nap.  I also think he needs a CN after that and before BT but, the third nap is so horrible, I can't seem to figure out how to put the rest of the evening together and he ends up going to BT so OT!  His WU is anywhere from 8am - 9am (I don't wake him) and his BT seems to be around 7:30pm.  I have tried to set him down at 6:30pm based on his last nap (with an A time of 1 hr 25/30 min, but he just is fussy and I end up shh/pat and nursing until 7:30). 

His first two naps have an A time of 1 hr 25 min and he usually falls asleep after fussing for 5-10 minutes (sometimes <5 min).  I have tried to keep the same A time of 1hr 25min for his 3rd nap, but he ends up sleeping only 30-40min.  I've adjusted it to an earlier A time (1hr 20min as well as 1hr 15min) but it doesn't seem to help.  I also don't do anything extra stimulating; he is usually sitting in his bouncy chair and I will chat with him.  He wakes up from his 3rd nap crying and then is fussy for the entire awake period until his bath. 

Here is his EASY from today:

8:30am WU
E 9am
A
S 9:55am - 11:55am

E 12:10pm
A
S 1:18pm - 2:30pm

E 3:10pm
A
S 4pm - 4:45pm (mantra cry for 5 min when laid down)

E 5:30pm
A bath
E 6:30pm
S 7pm (tried to set in crib after he fell asleep on my shoulder for burping.  He quickly woke up and mantra cried and I shh/pat until he was back in his crib asleep at 7:30)


I think the A time between the 3rd nap and the BT is too long, but I don't know how to sneak in a CN when his 3rd nap is so horrible and he already fights the 3rd nap.  Should I try a REALLY short A time before the 3rd nap (1hr or 1hr 10min???)?  I am so lost and feel horrible when he is so upset and then wakes and is so cranky until BT.  It tears me up to hear him cry, even the mantra cry is disturbing for me.

Please help.  I appreciate any advice.

[Ima shel Alon]

Hi sweetie, hugs, sleep problems are the worst.

I don't think that he needs another nap (so a total of 4 naps), but rather try and get a better third nap out of him. When you tried to reduce the A time to 1:15h for how long did you do it for? I am asking because usually you need to stick to the same A time for 3-4 days to see if it's working. If you did try it for that length of time and still got only a short nap then it could be that he is actually ready for a bit more A time then, perhaps 1:40h A time?
On the EASY you posted he had 1.5h A time before the third nap and he did a 45min nap which would usually be an UT nap. Do you remember how he woke up from this nap? Happy and chatty or cranky?
If reducing or increasing A doesn't work then I think the only way forward would be to make peace with 2 full naps and a CN in a day and start increasing all A times by 10min to push the day a bit. But let's not go there yet, I would try first to adjust that specific A.
What do you think?

[Kymmi13]

I'll try the longer A time.  We've done the shorter A time for 4-5 days and he wakes ok but then gets cranky after 15-20 min (which tells me he needs a longer 3rd nap).

[Kymmi13]

DS had a monster first nap (had to wake him after 3 hours) and a 1.5 hour first nap.  I increased his A time for his third nap and had him in his crib after 1hr and 35min.  He was asleep in 5 and slept for an hour - I had to wake him to protect the BT since he had such a long first nap. 

So, I think the longer A time is the way to go.  Thank you for the input!

[Ima shel Alon]

That's great!!!
Just as a side note, I'd be careful with very long naps, they tend to steal from night sleep At his age I didn't let DS nap more than 2.5h and when he was around 6-7m old not more than 2h.

[Kymmi13]

I think I will start to cap the first nap at 2.5 hrs.  Sometimes, it comes back to bite me because his second nap is short (45min - 1hr) and then I need to stretch his A time for the rest of the day in order to get to his BT.  It's always a balancing act (and praying to the nap Gods). 

Should I cap ALL naps at 2.5 hrs?  Or should the last nap be capped even more?  I usually will wake him if he's slept more than 2.5 for his third (which is rare) or if he's encroaching on the A time right before his BT.

[Ima shel Alon]

If he is on 4 naps, then I'd do 3 full naps and one CN (45min) as the last one. But if you let him have three naps on 2.5h each and a CN then your day won't fit and actually that would be a hell lot of day sleep. He should be doing 18h sleep MAX in 24h at this age.

[Kymmi13]

He is on 3 naps.  He usually doesn't sleep more than 6 hours total for nap sleep.  He just started STTN, so, I expect his first nap to shorten and his A time to increase (which I'm already seeing him needing longer A times). 

What does it mean if he wants/can sleep more than 18 hrs a day?

[Kymmi13]

Also, does A time include him trying to fall asleep or fussing?  If he's starting to wake but takes 10 minutes to do so, is that A time or S time?

I write down the times based on when I set him down and when I pick him up.  Sometimes, I let him fuss 5-10 min before/after he's set down. 

[Ima shel Alon]

If he has 6h of day sleep and around 12 at night then it's great. 18h in 24h is a general "rule", that's what most babies do. Some babies are very high sleep needs, so if he is sleeping 19h and it doesn't mess things with your routine then it's fine, don't worry about it.

Usually the A time starts when eyes open and finishes when eyes are closed. But if he gives you full naps even if the 5-10min of fussing then the A is ok.