10 wks old...NW or NF?

[Caitlyns Mum]

Hi, our DS is 10 wks old, is now 5kgs and EBF. He was born 4 wks premmie, but has been feeding fine and putting on heaps of weight from day 1. My question relates to his night time feeds. Some nights he will go 4 hours between feeds, but others (like last night!), he will do one stretch of 4 hours and then wake every 2 hours after that. He's on a loose easy routine during the day with the main principles I follow being feeding every 3 hours, giving him 1 - 1.25hrs A time and typically he takes good naps (sometimes with the help of the dummy at 45mins to extend the nap). He's either an angel or textbook baby.

The last few nights looked like this:

9/6/13 - this was the sort of night I'd like to get all the time!
9.30pm DF but I'll have to rouse him to take it, so not really DF
2.30am NF
7.30am wake

10/6/13
9.00pm
12.30am
3.00am
5.15am
7.30am wake

11/6/13
10.00pm
12.15am
2.45am
6.30am wake

12/6/13
9.45pm
12.30am
5.00am
7.00am wake

13/6/13
9.45pm
11.45pm
2.30am
6.00 wake (but replugged the dummy from 4.30am in attempt to stretch him)

14/6/13
9.15pm
1.00am
5.00am
8.00am wake

15/6/13
8.00pm
12.15am
3.15am
6.15am
8.00am wake

So you can see from the above nights, that every few nights (9th, 12th, 14th) he will do at least one stretch of 4 - 4.5hrs. I have also given up doing the DF as even with giving this feed at 10pm, he wasn't making it through til morning with only one feed. I figure if I have to feed twice during the night, then feeding earlier in the night eg 12 and 4 is better than a second feed at 5ish. For family functionality, I'd prefer that he wakes at 7.30ish rather than earlier so I can get up and get my older one sorted before I feed him.

I'm not able to see any pattern or reason for the more frequent NF - it's not like we've missed a feed during the day and so he's making it up at night. Is he too young or am I being too tough to do sh/pat when he wakes earlier than 3 hours after the previous feed? Does the precise timing of the DF (or last feed) have any special influence on the timing of the NF? Ie if its given at a certain time, it will stretch him longer than if its given at another time?

 I already try the dummy when he wakes and usually he won't take it and screams. Im still learning his cries, but i assume its hunger as he doesnt cry too much for other reasons.  Note that the dummy usually works during the day to extend his naps if needed.  So when he wont take the dummy, i feed him but he'll only take one side or not a 'good feed' which is why I think he can be 'stretched'.  Any thoughts would be appreciated!

Please feel free to bump me over to the easy or breast feeding boards - I wasn't sure where the best place to post this was as its about feeding and waking. 

[katie80]

Hi there, I think it's fine to try to settle him back to sleep if he wakes before 3hr at this age, but if he isn't having any of it after 10min or so, I'd just go ahead and feed. As tough as it is, I think what you're experiencing is completely normal, esp as he came a little early. His little tummy can only take in so much, and I always think it's better to just feed and go back to sleep at this age rather than try to extend and have him wake up only 10/15/30 min later.

Does the precise timing of the DF (or last feed) have any special influence on the timing of the NF? Ie if its given at a certain time, it will stretch him longer than if its given at another time?

I don't think the precise timing matters so much, but Tracy did believe it was best to give the DF before 11pm, as any time after that has the potential to interrupt sleep more than help it. I think ideally you want the DF to happen 3-4hr after the BT feed, so that it's a good, full one. That being said, I did a DF with both my kids, but found it to be more difficult at this age as it's hard to rouse them enough to take a good one. Sometimes, I would change their diaper half-way through, sometimes I would unzip their sleeper a bit and tickle their toes. But, if it's more work than it's worth, you might just try letting him sleep and going to bed a little earlier yourself.

Hope that helps a little!

[Caitlyns Mum]

Hi! Thanks for the response. I guess I'm just a little keen to get the 'sleep training' underway and don't want to miss the window where it is easiest to establish good habits. But am I right in assuming that NF for young babies are different to all other aspects of BW, in that you do feed on demand?

We did have a good night last night: DF at 10.30, NF at 2.15, NW at 4.30 but gave dummy & settled straight away, NF at 6.00 (should have been wake up, but I tried to put him back to sleep and it worked!), 8am wake & feed. Let's hope those nights get more frequent! As a gentle way of discouraging the early morning NF (the one/s following the 2am feed), is it feasible to feed less/shorter and put him back to bed in the hope that it'll just see him through the couple of hours til wake up?

With the DF, I also have to rouse DS to make him take it. Is it a problem that you're actually waking them for the feed, rather than feeding them in their sleep like Tracy suggested? I DF at 9.30 - 10 ( as I can't stay up any later!), so theoretically I'm not interrupting his nighttime sleep...?

Thanks for your help!

[katie80]

But am I right in assuming that NF for young babies are different to all other aspects of BW, in that you do feed on demand?

I don't know that I'd call it on demand, because you don't want to be feeding every 1.5-2hr, but yes, if he's hungry every 3hr, I'd still feed him and not try to extend him much farther.  Typically, we recommend that you don't feed any more frequently in the night than you do during the day.  So, if he's going 3hr during the day, you don't feed under 3hr at night.  You were right in settling him at 4:30 last night and then feeding again at 6.

As a gentle way of discouraging the early morning NF (the one/s following the 2am feed), is it feasible to feed less/shorter and put him back to bed in the hope that it'll just see him through the couple of hours til wake up?

Yes, that's a perfectly fine plan.  Be aware though, that he may not drop that feed until closer to 3/4mo.  It perfectly normal to have 3 NFs still until then, esp as he's still going through growth spurts fairly frequently.

Is it a problem that you're actually waking them for the feed, rather than feeding them in their sleep like Tracy suggested? I DF at 9.30 - 10 ( as I can't stay up any later!), so theoretically I'm not interrupting his nighttime sleep...?

It sounds like you're doing it just fine!  Better to rouse him to take a good feed than to do a 'worthless' DF, with him sleeping all the way through.