7 month old waking 4 + times a night

[jamarosmom]

I started PU/PD a week ago. I had some initial success, but due to an evening of vomiting, I coslept three days into the BW system and we have regressed. So last night I started in earnest again. He was a great sleeper from 2.5 to 3.5 months, then started waking every two hours and it has not got much better since. I need some encouragement to keep going with BW and maybe some help with EASY.

I am trying to establish a good EASY routine, but J is in the habit of nursing every hour (and yes, it's my fault for letting him). I will post yesterday's schedule. Keep in mind nursing lasts for 5 mins on average and for the first nap I'm trying to get him down for an hour before he goes to sleep, so I started at 8:30. The second nap I used to be able to do around 1- 2 but that was nursing to sleep after I watched for signs of tiredness. Now the afternoon naps are fairly random. I try for them, but I don't know how long to keep him in his crib for if he doesn't seem tired. He rarely cries loud enough for me to do PU/PD anymore. It's more fussing in his crib, mantra cries. I'm not quite sure if I should PU/PD, but usually don't unless he is wailing. I didn't add activity in to the schedule but it's all the areas where nothing else is going on. J just got his third tooth, so I think teething isn't currently happening. Here are the answers to the questions needed to help:

How old is your child?  7 months
What’s his/her daily routine? See schedule below
What’s nap routine? Used to nurse to nap, had one nap 2 hours after waking, two hours after next waking and then possible cat nap around 5:30. First two naps were 45 mins, last one 20 mins. Since starting BW, I've gotten some longer naps (2 hours on occasion), but the morning nap is taking an hour to get him down, sometimes then only lasts 30 mins - 45 mins. I'm not sure when to put him down for his afternoon nap. If I follow a 4 hour EASY, he ends up not wanting to go down (awake and/or fussing in his crib for 45 mins +), so I just wait for him to drop off sometimes. Yesterday it was after swimming, I plunked him in his crib and he was out in 5 secs.
How long are naps? Varies - 45 mins - 2 hours
What's bedtime routine? Time? Nurse, Bath 6:45 - 7, go to dark nursery, read short story, put in paci, turn on sleep sheep, give him bear to cuddle, tell him goodnight, then put him in crib, walk away, come back in a couple mins when he is crying. Hold hand, replace paci, stay with him until he is asleep, usually an hour, not a lot of PU/PD needed.
Do you bottle or breastfed?? Breastfeed only - he won't take a bottle
How much? or how long? Every 45 mins to 2 hours, trying to spread out, but finding it difficult. Feed for 5 mins or less on one side.
If breastfed.. one side or both?? (at each feed) Usually one side, if he's really hungry I will switch sides.
How many wakes per night? 4-6
What’s your LO like when waking at night? How long is he/she up? Whimpers that escalate when I ignore. If I go in, crying will subside, cry more when he realises I'm not picking him up (when I put sleep sheep on). He arches back to try to get me to pick him up. If I feed, asleep in less than 5 mins. If I don't feed, 10-20 mins.
When you go to him/her is she fussing or crying? Or is it a mantra cry?Crying until I get there, maybe crying when he realises I won't pick him up. If I feed him, he's happy and asleep.
What have you tried to settle?? Put paci in, soothe with voice, put sleep sheep on, put hand on head or hold hand (will start playing with hand usually), sit beside crib.
What do you do for A time and how long is it? 2- 3.5 hours, sometimes play on floor with toys, try to crawl, sometimes meet up with other babies/moms, swimming, running errands
Are there developmental issues such as teething or milestones? In the last two weeks he's cut three teeth, but no more seem to be coming through at the moment. Trying to crawl, learned to sit up a couple weeks ago.
Have you introduced cereal? Why, how much, and how many times a day? Solids 2- 3 times per day, cereal, fruit, veg
Do they have a prop? If so what is it? Soother, sleep sheep
Do they have a lovie? Small bear, fuzzy blanket

Our schedule from yesterday

7:00 - up and feed
7:15 - feed more
8:00 - solids
9:00 - feed
9:30- 10:10 - nap
10:15 - feed
10:45 - solids
11:15 - feed
1:00 - feed
1:25 - 2:40 nap
2:45 - feed
3:25 - feed
3:45 - solids
4:15 - feed
5:00 - feed
6:00 - feed
6:45 - bath, book, cuddle (use sleep sheep, paci, bear and fuzzy blanket)
7:15 - asleep
7:45 - awake, put sleep sheep on, replaced paci, he went back to sleep
9:50 - woke, fed, fell asleep on breast
1:15am - feed
3:45am - feed
5:00am - replaced soother and he went back to sleep
6:00am - brought to my bed, nursed and we slept until 8

Thank you in advance for any help!

[amom526]

I feel for you! I also have an similar aged baby who won't take a bottle, an it definitely makes things interesting!

I think the constant feeding is making it hard for him to ge enough sleep and also hard for him to get full. Why are you offering so often? What happens when you try to stretch him-not judging at all, just trying to help. he may be genuinely hungry at night-but I think it is a good sign that he can sometimes go back to eat without eating. He may really be hungry the other times, or maybe not-it's hard to know.

I can share my rough easy since our kids are similar, but obviously every baby is different.

Wake up:7
Nurse: sometime between 7-8 depending when he last nursed
S: 9-945/1030 varies
E:whenever he wakes up (sometimes I offer before the nap but try not to cause it gets me into a bad cycle)
E: 1230/1
S: 1
E: 3
E:6
BT: 615

He gets a small amount o solids 2-3 times a day.

Nights vary from good to bad to worse. On our very best nights he will wake up twice to eat ( maybe around 11 and 4) and go right back to sleep. Other nights he is up screaming for hours or just up every 2 hours. If nothing else, this will pass!

[jamarosmom]

Thanks for responding and sharing your schedule. It's helpful for me to see what others with similar aged children are doing.

I honestly never realised I was feeding so often until I recently started keeping track. I started feeding on demand when he was born and have never gotten into a schedule, so whenever he's upset, I figure offering a breast is a good option. Now I realise how crazy things have gotten! I'm trying to spread out the feeds but I guess I'm in a bad habit too. However, he gets upset when I don't feed him at least every two hours.

Do you just feed your LO twice a night? Do you aim for certain times? Do you do PU/PD if he's upset? I'm hoping J drops some night wakings, and thus feedings, otherwise I have to chose one to cut, I'm not sure if I should cut the 10 pm one or a later one, 3 or 4. Thoughts?

[amom526]

Pick up put down doesn't work for my loved one, it just gets him more worked up. I usually attempt to feed if we have been trying to settle (shh pat) for 10 min and its not working. My lo really doesn't comfort nurse, so if he is trying to get a let down I know he is hungry. He usually will settle in 10 min or less if he's not hungry. Although we have been having long NW for no reason where nothing works. We just try to comfort him till he decides to go back to sleep.

I would try starting at 2 hour intervals for nursing, and then slowly pushing it out by 15 minutes. I think 2.5 hour intervals is a good goal to start with that will still allow you to feed on demand. I'm also a supporter of on demand feeding, but when you are in the habit of a nursing marathon, I think things just get very muddled. I feed my Ds if it has been more than 2.5 hours and he is acting fussy.

[katie80]

Hi there, you've gotten great advice so far. Just wanting to pop on and offer a little more encouragement.

I think the feeding so often is definitely an issue. One, he likely isn't taking full feeds, so may truly be hungry at a few of those NWs, but he shouldn't really be feeding more than 2 times a night at this age (possibly three, but unlikely). Also, if you're nursing him every time he's fussy, he's not learning many self-soothing skills during the day, so makes it harder to teach them at night. A cuddle and a song or story usually do the trick pretty well at this age. I'd start stretching his feeds out like amom suggested. You could also do a main feed (offering both breasts) and then a top up feed (just one breast) after solids. This way you know he shouldn't be hungry again until after his nap to start the next cycle. I'd push him to a minimum of 3hr in between milk feeds, with the goal of getting to 4, once solids are well established.

Secondly, the average A time for a 7mo old is 3hr. I think his first nap is short, because he's not quite tired enough to sleep more than one cycle. I'd start pushing that out to 2h45min, then 3hr and he should hopefully start sleeping a longer morning nap. Then, the pm nap can be about 3hr later and BT another 3-3.5hr after that. Right now, it looks like he's a bit OT by BT, which will encourage NWs, as he's likely sleeping fitfully.

Finally, PUPD and the paci don't mix, as PUPD is a tool to teach independent sleep and the paci is a prop. If you want to keep the paci, I'd start teaching him how to replug himself during the day and then guiding his hand to it at night (place lots around the crib or get ones that attach to something or glow in the dark) and finally just using your voice to tell him to get it. This, combined with shh/pat will be a better solution to independent sleep than PUPD (unless you want to get rid of the paci).

I'd also think about getting a more permanent solution to white noise than the sleep sheep, like a small fan or white noise on an iPod. We started with a sleep sheep too, but I got so annoyed that it lasted only 25 or 45min, the exact times that LOs transition in their sleep. By having to go back in and turn it on in the MOTN, you might be stimulating him more and waking him up more, esp as you mentioned he gets more upset at that point. Something that is more constant would make it so you could just go to him and try to settle him back to sleep right away.

Hope that helps some. What do you think?