Starting sleep training - reassurance neeeded!

[rachaelcole]

Hi everyone,

I have posted a few times now regarding DD's short naps. Over the past few days things have started to improve in so much that although the nap is still short, she can be resettled (not easily but it does happen). We have also started to experience some night wakings which is not normal for her (although she has had a cold and been snuffly so I think that's what has caused it).

Background info:
-DD is 15 weeks old & follows just under 75th percentile (UK)
-She is formula fed (currently slowly weaning from comfort formula back to standard) & has 1x7oz & 5x6oz bottles as standard each day at 7,10,1,4,7 & 10.
-Short naps started at about 8 weeks old & coincided with STTN
-She has been on EASY since day 1
-She is a textbook baby (by the BW quiz)
-When well rested she can do a 2hr 'A' time

Having re-read BW-SAYP book I can really relate to one of the case studies & I think it may be time to start the transition to a 4 hour routine & start to sleep train using PU/PD.

I have a few questions/areas I need reassurance on having re-read Tracey's book:

- Starting from wake up time (which is 07:00 for us), I will give her the full 'A' time and put her down for her nap. I am right in thinking that i spend the remainder of the nap time trying to resettle, and if we reach the next 'E' time we get her up, feed but then keep her up until the next Nap time (this is what happens in one of the case studies)?

- Also with regards to when to intervene, I am so scared of inadvertently letting her CIO (I even panic about being in the car or if I'm in the loo!!) that i think i have been intervening too soon and therefore not giving her the opportunity to learn how to resettle herself. My thoughts are that when she wakes and starts 'crying', unless it is a constant cry (instead of stop-start) I should leave her? It usually sounds like she is angry & just shouting at me - should I be leaving her or tending to her?

I am confident with ssshh-pat (and she responds well when in arms but not so well if she remains in cot) but have never tried PU/PD with her.

With the sleep training, I can happily block out a few days & not run errands at nap time so we have full concentration on it but is that to intensive for her? Or will it not work if the odd nap is in the car/buggy?

If anyone is able to reassure me on the points above, or provide any words of wisdom, I would be super grateful. I am really not looking forward to this!

Thank you 

[rachaelcole]

Bump-we start today!

[Sarah - Enfys' Mum]

Why are you thinking of pupd?  If shh pat is working, there's no need to use pupd.
Don't increase her a time too quickly, 10-15 minutes each day is enough.
It's okay to have the odd nap or two out of the cot. I always did the cat nap in the pram or carrier. 

[rachaelcole]

I had thought that because sshh/pat is only effective when I pick her up (she doesn't respond very well in the cot) I was kind of doing a PU/PD anyway (I have to pick her up to sssshh/pat & then put her back down again). Just wanted to do it properly so she learns to settle herself. Should I just pereservere with sssh/pat in the cot a bit more?

[Sarah - Enfys' Mum]

Ooh, you got me now !  I've never actually done pupd, I've always managed without. Of course, sometimes, you do have to pick them up and pat them on your shoulder. I guess it is a grey area but I would aim to settle in the cot as much as you can. My dd2 doesn't actually like patting, I put my hand on her bum and maybe wiggle it a bit. Some babies like it if you pat the mattress next to them.
Sorry, I haven't really answered your question have I?

[rachaelcole]

This is breaking my heart. She woke (as normal) at the 30minute mark. I sshh/patted in the cot which kept her calm for about 10minutes. Then the crying went up a gear so I picked her up whilst sshh/patting and she stopped crying straight away. So I put her down continuing to sssh/pat, she started again, this went on for about 15minutes. But it made her sooo angry. I ended up putting the whitenoise on as I couldn't sssh anymore. She is now lying in her cot, only calm if I'm stood over it-not patting or sshhing but whitenoise is on. She hasn't been back to sleep. Am I doing the right thing? 😔

[Sarah - Enfys' Mum]

Hugs xx, it is hard work. How did the rest of the day go?  I think you better post your routine, or even better, an actual day . Maybe there's a problem there.

[rachaelcole]

First nap was 30 mins followed by an hour of crying with sshh/pat & some PU/PD. She didn't go back to sleep at all but we didn't leave her room until next E time. Second nap was 45mins followed by an hour of awake-less crying than first but sssh/pat. Third nap I APOP'd to try & get her to rest as she was exhausted-she did 1.5hrs!

She slept 19:15-07:00 (dream feed at 22:00) last night so she is well rested for today. I will post today's EASY with how today goes.

Thank you for replying-even if we can't fix it it's nice just to have support!!

[Sarah - Enfys' Mum]

You'll get there. It's great she sttn. A lot of it can be developmental at this age, they just have to learn how to get through the sleep cycle transition.  Have you seen happy's thread?  She's been having very similar problems to you, but her dd is slightly older. A combination of wake to sleep and increased a time helped her.  If she is waking at the same point all the time, you can go to her about ten minutes before she'd wake up, and start patting her through the transition.


Re: 4.5mo wonky naps-20,30,40 mins

[rachaelcole]

Yes, I've seen it-there seems to be a lot if us in this boat! Today has been a vast improvement on yesterday already. Her first A time was 1hr 45mins. She went down in her cot drowsy but awake with dummy. Straight to sleep. Woke at the 30min mark & fussed for about 7 minutes so I left her. She started crying so I went to her and sssh/patted over my shoulder until calm. Put her back down with dummy & whitenoise (to save my voice!) & continued a light pat. She fell asleep after 25minutes. Woke up again after only 10minutes, so I covered her eyes & she was back asleep again in 10minutes.

Positives: only calmed her from a full cry out of the cot, everything else she has been in the cot. Resettle has been possible. No crying other than the first which I responded to.

Negatives: still using dummy - but 1 thing at a time! 😀

[Sarah - Enfys' Mum]

Well done.

[rachaelcole]

So, today's EASY:

Wu-06:55
E-07:05
A-1hr45min (sleepy @ 1hr20mins)
S-08:45-09:23 (woke crying) - ssh/pat on shoulder until calm. Dummy & whitenoise in cot.
S-09:50-09:58 (woke fussing) - covered eyes. Re plugged dummy.
S-10:10-10:22 (woke happy)
E-10:30
A-1hr25mins (sleepy @ 1hr)
S-11:45-12:12 (woke crying) - went down with sssh/pat in cot, no dummy. Gave dummy & whitenoise upon waking, covered eyes.
S-12:20-12:50 - dummy fell out 12:27, started to stir so re plugged. Dummy fell out again @ 12:38.
S-12:53-13:35 - dummy re plugged. HTTJ until 13:06.
E-13:40
A-1hr35min (crying tired @ 1hr25mins)
S-15:10-15:54
A-1hr35mins
E-16:40
S-17:30-18:10
A-bedtime routine
Bed-19:30
S-20:10

Not too bad.

My plan is:

- first concentrate on trying to increase A time to nearer 1hr45min. Try to use dummy only when really needed due to OT. Hold for 3 days with no other changes.
- once new A time is ok, concentrate on starting nap with no dummy. Resettle however needed during this time.
- when can start nap with no dummy, use W2s to extend at least first nap of the day.

I don't want to do it all at once-I feel it's too much.

Any thoughts?

[Sarah - Enfys' Mum]

Sounds fine. Do you intend keeping the dummy long term?

[rachaelcole]

I don't mind her using it, but for sleep only. We are finding that she is naturally rejecting it gradually so happy to go with the flow for now on that one.

[Sarah - Enfys' Mum]