Overnight feeds for 8.5 mo old

[didiosa1980]

I don't know if this needs to be here or the sleep help. LO is getting back into the crib after a household flu + pink eye escapade all through March. I co-slept to try and get SOME sleep because we were still working on the sleeping through the night. Hubby thinks LO should only be fed 2x a night, if that. I'd prefer 2-3 to keep my supply from tanking like it did when we first started training (cause otherwise I have to pump and that's more difficult and time-consuming).

Last night LO put himself back to sleep after only 1 sleep cycle; a first! We're feeding about every 3 hours, which isn't horrible to me... Of course, hubby thinks that LO 'SHOULD' be doing better for his age because 'that's what the book says'. I really don't want to waste time trying to get him to go back to sleep (like the 4A-5A hour after I tried to put LO back to sleep after a feed this morning). During the day LO seems to be able to handle a general 3 - 3.5 hour gap between feeds.

Thoughts?? I don't know when LO is actually hungry because we've only had him on his EASY since the beginning of the year and that got scrapped due to all the illness over the winter. He's so tiny, how can he sleep through the night without at least 1 overnight feed?? He seems to top out at 5 oz bottles during the day.

[cath~]

Does he fall asleep independently at BT or do you feed (or other apop) to sleep?  That might make a difference as to whether he's waking out of hunger or not during the night.

Does he take much milk at the Nfs? Does he seem hungry?  Or is it just a quick feed then back to sleep.

What is his weight? You say he's tiny.  Is he small for his age? How much solids is he taking? How many feeds during the day?  Is he ebf or mixed?

If you're ok with the NFs then there's no need to make any changes IMO.

However, with L, she dropped the DF (and no other Nfs) at around 7 mos (so no feeds at all from about 7pm to 6.30 am) once she was on 3 solid meals a day and I didn't see any drop in daytime supply.  I think if you wanted to, and LO is not waking due to hunger, and dropped the Nfs gradually, then this shouldn't be a problem for your supply for other feeds.  Lots of LOs continue to bf during the day once they have dropped their Nfs,  your body just adjusts iyswim, and you don't haven't to keep feeding at night just to maintain supply (esp at this age and older). 

How old was your LO when you tried training before and saw a drop in supply?  How many Nfs were you trying to drop at that time?

[didiosa1980]

During March's co-sleeping, I'd feed him and let him nod off attached. Then I'd slip away and do what I wanted for a few hours. In the afternoon, I usually don't make more than 2-3 oz both sides, but I give him a 5:30P + 6:30P cluster just in case. That hasn't changed in months, ever since he did the evening cluster feed. I figure it would help him for the overnight.

When I meant tiny, I was referring to his stomach. They say a baby's stomach is the size of a fist, and his fists are not 7 oz bottle-sized, so how could he hold all that all at once in a DF?? He takes a 6A morning feed, 3 bottles in the daytime (the amount varies depending on how much I pump...usually 3.25 - 5 oz per), 1 solids meal around 1 oz, 2 cluster feeds, and then he's taken various overnight feeds depending on how he slept that night. When I wake to feed, I make sure that he takes both sides so it drains me, feeds him, and keeps me going.

I wouldn't mind being able to do 2 overnight feeds at the 10 + 2 times, but hubby thinks LO should be able to pull 8 hours. We finally sat down and worked on an overall April goal of 6-8 hours and this week we're working on 4 hours between feeds, 2 overnight feeds, and LO trying to self-soothe back to sleep as much as possible before intervention. The following weeks, we are going to try and improve on this and see how he does at the end of the month and call every little good thing a victory for that day.

We started TBW method starting this January, when he was around 6 months. I guess it was the stress + even more lack of sleep + the solids mental debate that got me. It took almost 2 weeks of Fenugreek and lots of other boosting stuff to get my supply back up.

[*Ali*]

If you think you have supply problems then I would not actively wean NFs. NFs will help your supply. Feeding more frequently (day and/or night) helps increase supply. Your breasts continue making more milk as your baby is feeding so they are never truly empty. There really is no "should" about being able to go 8hrs really. If you are happy with the feeds (which it sounds like you are and it is your DH who is not) then I personally would just let him reduce them of his own accord.

I would probably concentrate on getting him able to settle himself to sleep without you/feeding. Then hopefully the feeds will reduce on their own.

[cath~]

I agree with Ali and would focus on getting him to sleep independently (without feeding to sleep) if you do want to tackle something.  That would make it easier for him to drop the NFs naturally when he's ready.

[didiosa1980]

I may try to keep it at 10 / 2 feeds and pump at midnight (much to my TOTAL ENJOYMENT  ) because I just pulled 10.75 oz over 8 hours and a few days ago it was 13+. I was thinking we may need to give only 2 bottles in order to get LO enough food, but I'm going to restart my fenugreek and see if that'll help. I really don't want his solids to equal out my milk until he's a year...and I know that substituting feedings will make things worse. I don't really want to lower my stash when LO reaches his 9 mo old growth spurt. I was worried enough at his 6 months that I wasn't producing enough (of course, right when we started crib training...AND LO got really sick too...). I'm not sure hubby understands the correllation between the two things, but his goal is to get LO to sleep through the night.

He has been starting to put himself to sleep a few times this week. He put himself to sleep when we put him down to bed last night and a few other times overnight this week, so he's doing amazing! I think, now that he's older, he's going to pick up the self-soothing a lot sooner than when we started this initially. I just don't want to get up every other hour and pump. Sleep or milk.... 

[*Ali*]

Could you pump straight after he feeds at 10 rather than get up and pump at midnight? You need sleep too hun.

[didiosa1980]

I can pump at 10, but I don't know that I would actually get anything out of it if he takes first cut... I know that'd help to tell my brain that I need to keep making more milk, but I would mostly pump to A: keep up my supply and B: add the extra to his daily bottles so he gets his daytime calories for help with nighttime sleep. I give him a 5:30P cluster and a 6:30P cluster, then I do an 8P pump before going to bed.

[*Ali*]

Maybe you would get more at 2am then? I just know I could not sustain that timetable. You would barely get back to sleep before you have to get up again 1.5-2 hrs later.

[didiosa1980]

I think we kind of fell into a good pattern over the weekend. If he's going to be needing around 10-12 hours as he gets older, and we want him up around 6 AM, then he doesn't need to be in bed till almost 8 PM. We tried that this weekend and put his feeds at 11 P + 3 A and they worked really well. I woke him up for the 11 P feed and he woke up for the 3 A feed and then we woke up him at 6 A. His diapers were really wet, but he slept right through them like a little trooper. 

I'm hoping that we can get into a 6 A, 10 A - 12 P nap, 4 P - 5 nap 8 P bedtime routine with those two feeds until he grows up and doesn't need one feed.

[*Ali*]

Some babies only need 10hrs sleep at night but most need more.  If you need him up by 6am and you ate having to wake him then I'd say that is a sign he needs a earlier BT. Most babies need closer 11-12hrs. It is better to cut a bit off daytime sleep IMO as night sleep is more restorative. His nights should get longer again when he drops to one nap.

[didiosa1980]

Ever since we started crib training him, he's always taken around 8-9.5 hours of sleep a night and he seems to do perfectly fine. Seven hours usually makes him a little cranky, but he seems to top out at 10 hours and that's if we let him sleep in till 7AM. Also, his naps usually range around 2-3 hours tops in a day. A lot of times, he's asleep around the 7:30 range because we do the 20 minutes prep time and it doesn't take long to get him to go down, so he gets an extra 15-20mins in.

Since we've never had a solid timeline for him, I think we finally found something to get him used to at least for this month before we alter it to get him to work a tad longer. (Plus we have ear tube surgery this month. All these doctor visits in the afternoon screw up his naps and bedtime.    )

[*Ali*]

I hope the ear tubes go well. Good luck with that.