17 months of NWs and EWs - I can't take it anymore !

[Dairy Queen]

Hi
LO is 17months old and a spirited + touchy baby, so despite being the third child, he is sometimes difficult to read because by the time I figure out that he wants/needs something, he’s already crying.  In fact, I always have a hard time figuring out whether he is UT or OT.  His sleeping has been difficult since birth, with a few (very) short lapses of STTN !!   

A typical day:
6am wake + BF
7:30am breakfast and then he goes out with my mom until 11am.
11:30am bottle of milk and then he naps (in my arms if he is crying/fussy or if he is in a good mood, I will put him in the crib and lay next to him until he falls asleep).  If I leave the room and he notices, he will call for me and within minutes, he will cry hysterically.
1:30pm wake and then lunch which typically consists of thick soup, macaroni, rice etc. followed by yogurt and then fruits.  Sometimes, he might wake before 1:30 but I typically try to put him back down.
3:30pm – fruit, and then we go play outside.
6:00pm – supper
6:45pm – bath
7:30pm – BF and then he goes to sleep or gets really relaxed under my breast and then I put him in his crib.

In the last month, he has STTN only twice.  The rest of the time, DH and I take turns tending to him.  He typically gets up 2-3 x per night and the amount of time necessary to put him back down will depend on how ‘awake’ he is and how many hours he has already been sleeping (it is easier for him to go back to sleep when it is still early in the night, versus 4am which could take 30-40 minutes before LO is sleeping). Most of the time, we have to wait until he is fully asleep before leaving the room because our footsteps or the turning of the doorknob will wake him up, and then the cycles starts all over again 

I don’t sleep in the room with LO but when it’s DH’s turn (every other day) and LO wakes up, DH will typically just take his pillow and blanket into the baby’s room and then lies next to LO’s crib going ‘shhhh’ and then just end up sleeping next to him until morning (there is a mattress in LO’s room, next to his crib).  DH can’t stand hearing LO cry so he prefers to sleep next to him (he says I am the tough one and we should just accept that LO is a bad sleeper) but we are both exhausted.

The room is dark, there is no disturbing noise that could disturb him (other than his brother and sister, but LO is usually up before them).

At this point, I am really tired, cranky and easily snap at DH or my other two children  

DH is going away next week and I am desperate for some advice.  Help !!!

Sherry

[ZacsMumme]

Hugs on the tough time. Touchy babies can be difficult to get into a settled routine and seem to feel things so much more than others.

My first thought is that the breast is a prop are you in a position to consider weaning the breast to sleep or rather not right now? - can he self settle?
the other thing you can try is an earlier Bt. It's a long day for an 18 mth old. I'd go for a 13 hr day and see if he sleeps a bit longer at night as a result.

[Dairy Queen]

Hi there

Thanks for the sympathy.  I have permanent bags under my eyes :-(

I wasn't really planning on weaning right now. 

He can self settle sometimes (for example, sometimes I will hear him make a noise in his bed, then he will go quiet, so I can only assume that he has woken and then managed to go back to sleep), but this is not the typical scenario.  Normally, if he wakes at night, then I need to intervene. Most naps are good (i.e. 2hrs and he won't wake in the middle)

If I am not home at 8pm, which is very rare, then DH gives him a bottle of 150ml of 3% cow's milk, holds him in his arms until he gets really sleepy, puts him in his crib and puts his hand on his back (and says shhhhh) until he falls asleep. 

He actually whent from 3-2 and then 2-1 naps a little earlier than most babies.

Questions for you...
Does this mean he is asleep at 7pm or that I am putting him to bed at 7pm? (with the goal of a 13hr day)
Also, do I change the BT gradually, bringing it forward a few minutes at a time?
How lond do I try this before I determine whether or not it actually worked?
I could give him his milk earlier (so he won't be as sleepy) but I would then have to stay in the room until he fell asleep.  That would likely make BT a little later though...  Is this what I should do now or just stick with BF him to sleep for now, until we figure out the ideal BT?

Thanks

[ZacsMumme]

Sorry I had some typos (thanks autocorrect ie nippy!??)
With regards to weaning, I only mean the feeding back to sleep at night. (Not wean bf altogether) If you want to keep doing the night feeding back to sleep you might find it more difficult to eliminate the NW. That said there's other things we can try to minimise them

7pm would be planned sleeping time.
I'd be tempted to just try the EBt of 7, and see how he fares, often if OT by BT then they will settle fine for an earlier one. Even if it's just for a few days to see if this is part of the reason for the Numerous NW. if it's OT then you often notice improvement pretty quickly (3 days or so) as they catch up on sleep.


The BF vs shhing and doing GW is really up to you. But, I think if your going to ditch the BF to sleep then you do need to do it and permanently keep it that way (with exception of illness etc) or he will get confused. 18 mths is quite a bad sleep age anyway (just google the 18 mth sleep recession )

Both my boys were on 1 nap at 10/11 mths but napped 3 hrs with 12 hr nights. At 18 mths both would still have been OT on a day longer than 13 hrs with a 2 hr nap. They are all different, but ruling out OT is a good first step yk?

[Dairy Queen]

Hi there

I only breastfeed him 2 times per day: once in the morning when he wakes up and then once at night before bedtime.  I don’t feed during the night at all (like to put him back to sleep).  When he does get up, then usually I listen to see what type of cry it is and then determine whether intervention is required. 
I tried the earlier BT last night.  I BF at 6:55pm and he was out by 7:10 (under my breast) and then I put him in his bed.  I was actually surprised that he had fallen asleep so early. 

He woke once at 12:30 and then I just went outside his room and said shhhh and he went quiet.  He called for me again at 12:45 and I did the same thing and he went to sleep without my needing to enter his room.  At 4:30 am, he woke up crying (pretty hard) and so I had to go inside to calm him.  He was wet (the diaper had leaked).   He wouldn’t calm unless I had him in my arms and he could put his face against my hair.  Every couple of minutes, I would try putting him down and he would just start to cry again so I put him in his crib and climbed inside and lay next to him.  He was still wet on his tummy but I wrapped a blanket around him and I was afraid that changing him would wake him up.  It was 5:15am and I didn’t want such an early wake up time so I wanted to do whatever I could to get him back to sleep.  He did in fact sleep until 6:10am with my hair bunched up in his hands, across his face.  The fact that he wasn’t going to be exhausted in the morning was enough motivation for me to sleep on a dirty mattress!! :-(

So… perhaps I could try the 7pm bedtime again (at least for a couple more days)? 

[ZacsMumme]

I'd stick with 7pm for a few more days. The night looks good, sorry you and him had a rough early morning though

[Dairy Queen]

Do you recommed that I try and shorten the afternoon nap? 

I read somewhere about the effectiveness for some toddlers of nap capping, but I am not sure if it appropriate (given LOs age) and also since I can't even tell if he is OT or UT!

The reason I ask is that he had a 2:45h nap yesterday and only went to bed at 8:30pm!  We still had the NWs of course, one at midnight and then another at 3am.  DH went for the 3am and said it took a really long time for LO to finally fall into a deep sleep, he would just toss, turn and then fuss (if DH left, LO would cry).

Thoughts?

[ZacsMumme]

Both my boys would nap their life away if I let them but then be up 1/2 the night and they need their night sleep (as do I!) so I capped their naps since about 14 mths or so at 2 hrs. Before this they napped up to 3 hrs  and now T at 20 mths probably needs his capped a bit more once he is well (been sick with bronchiolitis and now a chest infection) so we get a solid 11-12 hr night.

All Los are different though, some will settle easy at bt no matter how long they nap, others self regulate their nap. At 17 mths though I do think most Los don't need more than 2 hrs napping a day

[Dairy Queen]

Oh dear... Bronchitis and chest infection... I'm sorry to hear that.  I hope your little one feels better soon.

I was thinking more of capping at around 90 minutes.  Otherwise, I can't seem to put him down at 7.  He just keeps standing, talking, jumping etc.

Yesterday, he had a bit of a cough and ended throwing up.  By the time I got him, myself, the crib, the sheets, the carpet and the floor all cleaned up, it was already 8:45pm.  LO was so agitated.  He slept well until 3am and then kept waking (on and off) until 6pm.  He was soooo cranky.  Took a 40min nap (I managed to put him down for another 40min) but he was really cranky all day so I gave him some Advil and we skipped the bath.  I put him down at 6:50pm and he BF and was sleeping by 7:10pm.

I'm crossing my fingers (for no coughing and no NWs)!

[ZacsMumme]

((Hugs)) sounds like he may be getting sick?
Yes 1.5 hrs is a reasonable nap, but on the short side. Maybe try for 1hr45 or 2 for 3-5 days then see how he is and you can pull back more if phi need too.

Your in prime SR territory and teething is rife at this age so hang in there, some of this will likely be a phase

Thanks - my boy is much better now, antibiotics work very quickly