Any LOs with a really loud mantra cry / shout?

[~Jen~]

DD2 is touchy/spirited. I'm trying to figure out whether this could be her mantra. I keep going back and forth and doubting myself. I've had such hard time listening to her cry before naps and BT - it is this unusal shout like waa,waa,waa, ANGRY SCREAM, waa, waa, waa, SCREAM. Ive tried to hold her but she is kicking and throwing her head back almost asking to be put down.  I've only just realised she does this when sleeping in the carrier too and that made me think must be mantra. It seems worse when OT/OS.

I've started putting her down thinking that is what she wants but I can hardly take listening to this shouting. I just don't know if she needs me and whether I am breaking her trust. She does usually go off to sleep at the end of it and this morning did a 2hr nap (with a hand on cheat to resettle at 45mins).  That is why I think not an OT cry. It does take her 15-2mins of the crying though but maybe she is just still learning to self settle?



 

[clazzat]

My dd2 was touchy at that age and her mantra sounded like someone was trying to cut her legs off! I spent ages trying to calm her when she was screaming like that, and it wasn't until the day that I had to put her down to take a break and she gave a big sigh and went straight to sleep that I realised that she had been trying to get me to put her down for ages.

I would suggest that you try putting her down and leaving the room to see what happens - I would give it a minute or two before you go back in (unless it seems to you that she is getting more distressed) to give her a proper chance to settle herself. Dd2 started sleeping so much better once I had worked that out!

[~Jen~]

Cutting her legs off sounds about right.  It is such an angry shrill.  I've put her down for each nap and BT today.  I just couldn't bring myself to leave the room still being so unsure but I was out of sight and didn't speak to her.  She settled each time after about 15mins of this crying/shouting routine/- I did put my hand on her chest a few times when she was starting to escalate and I picked her up at one point when she seemed to be struggling and she fell right asleep. 

DH came home tonight and told me I was letting her CIO which just breaks my heart as that is the last thing I want to do.  But my instinct is this is how she is starting or attempting to self settle.  The thing is she does the same loud horrid shout when I am holding her before a sleep and when I put her down she doesn't seem to get more or less upset.  Holding  her is actually getting physically hard as she is kicking and squirming while shouting and it just doesn't seem like she wants me to hold her.  There are points where she does seem to be proper cry but then it settles back down into this other more rythemic cry/shout...   Argh... I jsut really don't know 

[clazzat]

I know with my dd that I wasn't letting her cio, it was definitely her way of settling. Only you can really tell whether she is cio, but my feeling would be that if she is settling herself that quickly then it is probably her mantra.

[Emami]

I posted a few threads about DD2 when she was tiny, but there were a lot of others that I almost wrote too.  I wondered if she was touchy and had reflux because she screamed a lot and we had so many 20min naps or even shorter I thought there must be discomfort or something.  I also couldn't hold her easily and worried about CIO because I spent a fair amount of time doing nothing while she screamed.  I stayed with her in the room and occasionally touched her or talked to her so she knew I was there but I basically just let her yell because literally nothing worked.  I do think that was her trying to settle herself, but she just didn't know how to when she was that little.  Now she's 4 months, goes down independently with minimal fussing, mostly sleeps good naps, and is such a smiler! No screaming.  I know Caia does have reflux and is touchy so it will probably take her longer to reach the non-screaming stage, but I definitely think loud angry crying does not necessarily mean she's as upset as she sounds. I know it's hard to listen to, but you're there when she needs you

[~Jen~]

Thank you Emma! That definitely makes me feel better. I will keep putting her down but just let her know I am there with a gentle hand or voice. I was so much less tired today without fighting and holding her and she had her best nap day yet ! 

[lily_layne]

Both of my LOs do best when put down and both had loud, intense cries. I can rock DS to sleep without a fight if needed but it was virtually impossible to do with DD. She would arch her back and fight the whole time just like you described - absolutely exhausting and emotionally draining. Like you, it too me a while to figure out that this cry was their attempt to settle. I should have known with DS given my experience with DD but I forgot until my mom reminded me Both took a soother but usually needed to cry for a few minutes before they would take it.

I wouldn't say you are doing CIO if that's what she needs to get to sleep. She is just blocking out the world. Some LOs just aren't able to lie there quietly for the 15-20 minutes it takes to drift off.

Now this thread has me wondering if DS really needs the soother anymore or if it's more for me so I don't have to listen to his ridiculously loud mantra cry

[~Jen~]

Can you believe I am still struggling with this?!?  On the one hand she has stopped screaming and shouting before her sleeps which I feel is progress.  I am also starting to hear more of what is a grizzly fussy mantra which sounds more normal and sometimes she will settle herself mostly at BT.  Other times it seems to escalate as she gets more upset.  Its like she is trying to get herself to sleep but just can't quite do it and so gets upset.  A few times I let her go for a few minutes and when I picked I felt bad because there were definitely tears and so a proper cry.  The thing is it sounds the same to me!  Now when she sounds like she is escalating I pick her up (not wanting to get to the tears and leaving her) and there are definitely times when no tears. Grrr.   Then I kick myself for picking her up and interrupting the mantra. Once I pick her up she usually will fall asleep or if I put her back down she cries again.   I try and just put a hand on her chest but this doesn;t seem to work at all when she is getting upset.  Am I completely messing up her mantra process??  It seems like she is still learning to self soothe but needs help sometimes.... but maybe I am just making it harder for her to learn?  WWYD?

[lily_layne]

(((Hugs))) I understand where you're coming from. I would probably just sit by her. If i was worried I would touch her cheek to check for tears and then pick her up if needed. I would also rock to sleep if self settling is not working.

[~Jen~]

Thanks!  It is not working...  I tried to touch her cheek tonight to check for tears and she went crazy.  I had to pick her up.  I don't even rock her; I just hold her still while she cries and she eventually passes out.  I can hear do the mantra cry when I hold her but if I then try and put her down she gets angry and the crying escalates.  Seems like I am becoming part of her soothing process....?

[lily_layne]

Seems like I am becoming part of her soothing process....?       

      
Have you read through the whole sleep anxiety thread? There's a discussion on there about 4th trimester parenting. Basically, some LOs just need much more help soothing until 4 months (or longer) and it's ok. I found that instead of thinking of it as APOP or creating a prop, renaming it 4th trimester parenting in my head helped me quit worrying and released the guilt. I used the 5s's from the Happiest Baby on the Block a ton with DD at least up until 4 months and, despite my fears, she reached IS by 6 months without much help from me.

Have you ever tried really intense, loud white noise like a hair dryer when Caia is crying? It worked great for DD. It caught her attention and stopped the crying so I could work on soothing her.